Just tell me when. I'm down, you guys would just need to send me some money via money gram so I can get my ass over there.
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d112crzy : 1993 Accord LX
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Originally posted by d112crzy View PostUR underdrive pulley is NOT an upgrade. I'm getting a Euro R style pulley.Last edited by blackice; 01-09-2009, 03:04 AM.Retired 1990 Accord LX Coupe
Project 240SX
Originally posted by chillin943anyone kno if i can just make a hot wire for v-tec off the horn??
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There's a damn good reason the stock pulley is dampened. I've done plenty of research and have personally seen what undampened crank pulley's do to bearings and crankshaft journals.
Yes, they do free up horsepower, but at the cost of fucking up your crank.
CrzyTuning now offering port services
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Originally posted by blackice View Posti beg to differ. there is a reason for it nagger. besides rotating mass you lose off the stock pulley, rotating your accessories slower will free up horsepower. do some research before you rag on stuff, reminds me of the time you asked me how to test spark plug wire resistance...btw i hope you didn't get shocked too much with that.
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your engine isn't externally balanced, the crank has no counterweights in it and the rubber on the pulley is only substantial enough for ride comfort and noise reduction. a solid crank pulley isn't going to cause issues. hearing you talk about engine harmonics and how a solid crank will cause problems is funny when you don't even like to run balance shafts.
edit: the power steering and alt issues are a whole other issue...worrying about the ps...you can go rig an electric pump like the euro r has, if joser is going with a single row crank from the euro he doesn't have power steering anyway so that argument isn't relevant. with the alternator....you gotta pay to play, its about gains vs wear and tear on the car, a lot of mods will directly or indirectly wear your car out faster. also what are your views on a fluidampr crank pulley in the case of harmonics and bearing wear?Last edited by blackice; 01-09-2009, 03:52 AM.Retired 1990 Accord LX Coupe
Project 240SX
Originally posted by chillin943anyone kno if i can just make a hot wire for v-tec off the horn??
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balance shafts counteract the vibrations the entire motor puts out. It does nothing to the crank itself. Hence why mosts H/F builds run a balance shaft eliminator kit.
honda engines are indeed internally balanced, but the use of a non weighted/undampened pulley throws the crank off. The pulley dampens vibrations from the crank, which if beat on hard enough, those vibrations WILL fuck up your crank. I know because I've seen it tested by a shop in FL. Not only that, but Bisi also backs that up. There must be truth to it.
It will throw off your bearing clearances, which hurts performance and engine durability.
Why do you think the sell those EXPENSIVE crank dampeners? Surely it is not for comfort or noise reduction, but for performance and reliability.
CrzyTuning now offering port services
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Originally posted by d112crzy View Posthonda engines are indeed internally balanced, but the use of a non weighted/undampened pulley throws the crank off.
The format of honda pullies is more of a vibrational dampener for comfort reasons and not a harmonic one for the engine itself. there just isn't enough rubber material in the honda pullies to really do much of anything for dampening harmful harmonics. rubber timing belts do take up some of the slack vs timing chain in the case of a badly balanced crank....one that isn't internally balanced will definitely screw things up.
the balancing of the oem pulley is needed because it is cast iron. casting and cooling time make the pulley weight uneven. look at the notches/knockouts on the pulley....the center of the pulley is usually cast, the ribbed part for the belt is lathed and the rubber in between is to join the two and help dampen the crank pulley if anything besides nvh. the ur pulley and others are internally balanced unlike the generic ebay ones. i will tell you that aluminum resonates longer and higher than iron and a solid one is more susceptible to direct engine vibration.
the information bisi and other tuners provide is relative to race builds, not so much a simple street build. eventually a solid crank pulley could cause issues like any other mod, but it is in no way a sure fire way of spinning bearings or causing oil pump failure like everyone makes it out to be.Retired 1990 Accord LX Coupe
Project 240SX
Originally posted by chillin943anyone kno if i can just make a hot wire for v-tec off the horn??
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Originally posted by blackice View Postyour engine isn't externally balanced, the crank has no counterweights in it and the rubber on the pulley is only substantial enough for ride comfort and noise reduction. a solid crank pulley isn't going to cause issues. hearing you talk about engine harmonics and how a solid crank will cause problems is funny when you don't even like to run balance shafts.
edit: the power steering and alt issues are a whole other issue...worrying about the ps...you can go rig an electric pump like the euro r has, if joser is going with a single row crank from the euro he doesn't have power steering anyway so that argument isn't relevant. with the alternator....you gotta pay to play, its about gains vs wear and tear on the car, a lot of mods will directly or indirectly wear your car out faster. also what are your views on a fluidampr crank pulley in the case of harmonics and bearing wear?
And no, the crank isn't externally balanced, but the rotating assembly IS balanced taking that crank pulley into account.
There is a lot more to harmonics other than is something designed specifically to damp harmonics. Everything on that rotating assembly in one way or another affects the harmonics of it.
And no, it wasn't just in relation to race builds. Hondafan kept his stock pulley because of what he specifically learned from those two guys. I am pretty sure the more I think about it that it was Larry Widmer who told him you can specifically tell the difference with even a stock engine that had an unorthodox pulley, because there is uneven main journal bearing wear. If that isn't indicative of harmonic issues, I don't know what is.
Like I said, talk to Hondafan. I know how thorough he is, and he will be able to cite sources, and probably recall the conversation.
And sorry, between Unorthodox who is pushing a product, and Honda tech dudes, vs Bisi and Endyn, I will believe the two guys who build real engines and have actual long term experience.
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