Would a plane take off on a tredmill?

[TypeG]

not this thread again. later.

[rudy1980]

A plane can't take off on a treadmill, because the air is not moving past it's wings.

On the other hand: A plane sitting at rest in a wind tunnel will take off once the airspeed is high enough.

One last thing, you can't put a plane on a treadmill because unlike a car it's wheels do not propel it. It's engine provides the thrust to make it roll, like a kid on skateboard.

edit: Now my question is this. What speed is the treadmill matching anyway, the wheel speed of the plane or the actual speed the plane is moving? I ask this because just say you can lock the wheels and apply so much throttle that the wheels are draged down the runway. That would mean O wheel speed, but the plane would be moving as normal.

I may have just contradicted myself.

So yes if its matching wheel speed it will take off.

[ACC0RD22]

A plane can't take off on a treadmill, because the air is not moving past it's wings.

On the other hand: A plane sitting at rest in a wind tunnel will take off once the airspeed is high enough.

One last thing, you can't put a plane on a treadmill because unlike a car it's wheels do not propel it. It's engine provides the thrust to make it roll, like a kid on skateboard.

read the thread. youre wrong.

whats funny is, you completely contradict yourself in your post, and the reason you list on the bottom is the reason it actually works.

[ACC0RD22]

isnt there like a jet plane of some sort that can do vertical take offs, then once its high enuf it just goes full throttle and can instantly take off from a stationary position in the sky?

you mean a Harrier?

I suppose, but thats not necessary.

[rudy1980]

read the thread. youre wrong.

whats funny is, you completely contradict yourself in your post, and the reason you list on the bottom is the reason it actually works.

I just edited my post and then read yours LOL

[Ralphie]

ROFL this shit confused even the most average passerby.

And yes Harrier jet....thats way ot.

[owequitit]

A plane can't take off on a treadmill, because the air is not moving past it's wings.

On the other hand: A plane sitting at rest in a wind tunnel will take off once the airspeed is high enough.

One last thing, you can't put a plane on a treadmill because unlike a car it's wheels do not propel it. It's engine provides the thrust to make it roll, like a kid on skateboard.

Your statement completely contradicts itself.

I can take off in an airplane with 0 speed over the ground, because speed over the ground has nothing to do with the speed of the airflow over the wing. The only thing the airplane needs to fly is airflow over the wing.

Since this has been brought up from the dead, I will use a little real world example that happened the other day.

When the winds at altitude get high enough, one of the things that is really fun, is to try and hover a Cessna.

Lately we have had really high winds at 9,000-12,000 feet. I have not personally been able to hover the airplane, because at the times I have flown they were not high enough. But, a friend of mine was.

They pointed the little Cessna into the wind, and reduced power. With the headwind (which cancels grounspeed, even though the speed of air over the wing doesn't change) they were able to fly the Cessna BACKWARDS at about 20MPH. And yet, the airplane never fell out of the air, or stopped flying even though the airplane was going the wrong direction over the ground.

How?

The airflow over the wing is independent of the speed over the ground. You know when you stand in a thunderstorm with high winds, and you can feel all that airflow? A stationary airplane will turn that into enough lift to fly, if the wind speed is high enough.

Here is a little demo video. Unfortunately, I can't find a real one, as it isn't that common, but Flight sim physics are based on real life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWHsuc4pTqA

Irregardless, it just doesn't matter. Forward motion of the airplane is created by the thrust of the engine.

The thrust pushes the airplane foward, and the forward motion creates air circulation, which then creates lift. Once the lift is sufficient to overcome the weight of the airplane, the airplane flies. Even if the treadmill and the wheels are turning backwards.

The speed of the treadmill is unimportant, as is the speed of the wheels. You could put this same airplane on a treadmill that moves backwards 3x as fast as the airplane will ever move forward, and it will STILL takeoff.

[owequitit]

A plane can't take off on a treadmill, because the air is not moving past it's wings.

On the other hand: A plane sitting at rest in a wind tunnel will take off once the airspeed is high enough.

One last thing, you can't put a plane on a treadmill because unlike a car it's wheels do not propel it. It's engine provides the thrust to make it roll, like a kid on skateboard.

edit: Now my question is this. What speed is the treadmill matching anyway, the wheel speed of the plane or the actual speed the plane is moving? I ask this because just say you can lock the wheels and apply so much throttle that the wheels are draged down the runway. That would mean O wheel speed, but the plane would be moving as normal.

I may have just contradicted myself.

So yes if its matching wheel speed it will take off.

It will takeoff no matter what the treadmill is matching. The wheels have nothing to do with the ability of an airplane to fly.

It is a simple scientific exercise in dependent and independent variables.

Is the way an airplane flies dependent, or independent on the rolling of the wheels.

Hint: It is independent, which by definition means that the wheels have no affect on whether or not the airplane will fly, regardless of what they are doing.

[accordaffair]

I think we can safely say END OF DISCUSSION now, we could've said it back before this thread was resurrected

I said no at first, but after thinking, I've figured it out.

[rudy1980]

Yeah I know I already edited my post. And the reason I didn't say what would happen if it matched the actual speed, is its not possible.

[blackice]

[lokuputha]

...it will if the air flow through the wings is optimal and offers sufficient lift.

The plane does not particularly have to be moving relative to the ground.
ie. Birds sometimes float stationary to the ground when wind offers enough lift.

[d112crzy]

When the winds at altitude get high enough, one of the things that is really fun, is to try and hover a Cessna.

This is all I had to think about. There's a reason they tie down All the small airplanes when they're out of the hangars.

I've seen one start to float one day when winds were crazy fast here, lol. It was awesome.

[F20A CB7]

DAMMIT im not on the list

[hondaccordgrl]

I am not reading this whole thing, but it was on another local forum, and they said it will take off.

its like if your on a tredmill with rollerblades, you will still go foward, so a plane will still go forward