Bisimoto heat shielding intake manifold gasket & Hondabond

[illinois_erik]

I would have to say your right!

Wow, and those are extended studs? That gasket takes up a lot of thread...

yep thats why i got them, stockers are small. been there done that, where youre riding the limit of thread engagement, goto torque and chowder the threads. also the exhaust header flange is beefy and i wasnt going to take a chance of studs breaking off in the head hence the high tensile rating.

[Losiracer2]

When I did the BISI gasket back when I was F22, I didn't need to do extended studs. I was able to use the factory ones.

It's not like you'll have to tighten those on and off that often, so I'd just tough it out and use the factory stuff. Just be sure to retighten them after a tank of gas or so. After it goes through a few drive cycles, the gasket did shrink a little bit, some studs were actually finger tight afterward! so make sure to check up on that.

You don't want to go HULK on them though, it just a thermoplastic gasket so go within reasonable limits.

Does Bisi specify a torque for the nuts? I can't remember

[owequitit]

I totally forgot about galvanic corrosion. Good catch. And thank you for your recommendations. It's nice to be made aware of such options and factors before hand as I'm in somewhat uncharted territory. This helped me a lot!



I hadn't thought of this. Initially when I read your response I thought it was a innovative idea and a good question.




That's great to know about Hondabond. In creating this thread I thought it would be optimal but wasn't entirely sure.

I was unaware of any reported shirking issues with these gaskets... This information has me considering installing one. Now that I'm aware of this I can search the site (and others) to help make a better assessment.

I notice that you stated you have installed phenolic gaskets in the past. Have you installed this one in particular or one similar enough to make reference to? (H22A F22B ect) If so can you tell me specifics about your experience such as time span since installation and approximate mileage with it installed?




This answers my question about this as well. Your help is much appreciated!

I haven't installed the Bisimoto one, as all of mine have been Hondata versions, Same material, although thickness might vary.

I have put them on the D, B, F, and H series engines without any issues. Both my F22 gasket and my H22 gasket have been on there for several years and 50+K miles with no issues.

I haven't personally seen any of the shrinkage issues, but they have been reported on various forums over the years.

To be honest, they don't make much of a difference in performance over the stock gaskets. Studies have shown that airflow through the intake is fast enough that the temperature doesn't change much regardless of manifold temperature. Not saying don't do it, just don't expect any noticable gains.

[cp[mike]]

i torqued the heck out of my manifold studs when installing the phenolic gasket. While later I checked again and some of the nuts were loose.

The manifold moves around and the gasket finishes compressing and re-shaping. Definitely re-torque the nuts afterward. I've considered not installing one again for this fact alone - a soft plastic spacer would be prone to tiny movements between the vibrating motor and heavy, hanging manifold... unless there is something locking the nuts I would imagine it would be an ongoing problem? but its probably not that bad if you are aware of it / check on it every so often, and hopefully it finds an equilibrium at some point.

[Grumpys93]

This is a great thread, I didn't even think about extend studs, I am curious as to turbo applications if the shrinkage would be more noticeable since it will be hotter air coming into the manifold. Great question hellraisen kinda makes me not want to use it. Especially if they can be more prone to vacuum leaks then the normal gasket.

[H311RA151N]

From what I've read after a few heat cycles the gasket shrinks a little so it's best to retorque them for good measure. Be sure to not over due it though or the gasket may bulge out which you don't want.

If I decide to go this route I'm sure I will be checking them daily. Thinking about the nuts having proper torque will cross my mind quite often while driving. The fact that it will bother me so much has me seriously debating on whether or not I want to go through with this.

yep thats why i got them, stockers are small. been there done that, where youre riding the limit of thread engagement, goto torque and chowder the threads. also the exhaust header flange is beefy and i wasnt going to take a chance of studs breaking off in the head hence the high tensile rating.

The benefits have me sold. After diving deeper into this matter I'm really glad you mentioned serrated nuts by the way. That's definitely a good idea along side Loctite once things settle in.

When I did the BISI gasket back when I was F22, I didn't need to do extended studs. I was able to use the factory ones.

It's not like you'll have to tighten those on and off that often, so I'd just tough it out and use the factory stuff. Just be sure to retighten them after a tank of gas or so. After it goes through a few drive cycles, the gasket did shrink a little bit, some studs were actually finger tight afterward! so make sure to check up on that.

You don't want to go HULK on them though, it just a thermoplastic gasket so go within reasonable limits.

Does Bisi specify a torque for the nuts? I can't remember

I appreciate you sharing your experience! I found out that the Hondata gaskets like for the H22 are thicker which do cut down a bit of available thread. As you said, the Bisimoto gasket on the F22A it's not as much of a concern.

Can you give me a good estimate as to when I should stop checking them? I guess miles would be the best interval... When they stop moving would be a logical thought but a little more of an idea would be helpful. I can see myself checking every few days for months and many miles after any noticing change in torque just because I would always wonder.

Once the gasket is done shrinking it's done for good correct? Maybe check them every oil change or so but not frequently?

I have not found specs from Bisimoto as of yet.

I haven't installed the Bisimoto one, as all of mine have been Hondata versions, Same material, although thickness might vary.

I have put them on the D, B, F, and H series engines without any issues. Both my F22 gasket and my H22 gasket have been on there for several years and 50+K miles with no issues.

I haven't personally seen any of the shrinkage issues, but they have been reported on various forums over the years.

To be honest, they don't make much of a difference in performance over the stock gaskets. Studies have shown that airflow through the intake is fast enough that the temperature doesn't change much regardless of manifold temperature. Not saying don't do it, just don't expect any noticable gains.

Several years and 50+k tells me quite a bit. That's most definitely good news.

What caught my interests with the Bisimoto gasket was it being a small thing I could do while I was there and it would make some kind of small improvement even though it's likely not noticeable. My plan is to do several small things here and there and maybe once combined will make a slightly noticeable difference.

i torqued the heck out of my manifold studs when installing the phenolic gasket. While later I checked again and some of the nuts were loose.

The manifold moves around and the gasket finishes compressing and re-shaping. Definitely re-torque the nuts afterward. I've considered not installing one again for this fact alone - a soft plastic spacer would be prone to tiny movements between the vibrating motor and heavy, hanging manifold... unless there is something locking the nuts I would imagine it would be an ongoing problem? but its probably not that bad if you are aware of it / check on it every so often, and hopefully it finds an equilibrium at some point.

I have to think about going through with it myself and for the same reasons. It has a couple draw backs for sure even if they are only temporary.

This is a great thread, I didn't even think about extend studs, I am curious as to turbo applications if the shrinkage would be more noticeable since it will be hotter air coming into the manifold. Great question hellraisen kinda makes me not want to use it. Especially if they can be more prone to vacuum leaks then the normal gasket.

I've sure got a better grasp on the subject through this thread, that's for sure! I'm with you as for debating on whether or not to use it. Decisions decisions..

[Losiracer2]

If I remember, I think I used a drop of thread locker on each stud because I was paranoid about losing the nuts, with them being very close to the end of the stud. I literally could barely see the top of the stud when installed.

I used the green thread lock, I think that's the lesser of the two in strength, in case I wanted to remove it for access to another component in the engine bay (red and green).

[c91bse7]

Here's mine, it's not bisi it's a torque solutions or something like that. I ordered it from eBay, after 2 weeks nuts are still tight. I'm not to worried about them until my next oil change I'll give them a good retourqe and should be fine.

[owequitit]

Whats the reason behind torquing the nuts in a few weeks c91bse7?

As the gasket heats and forms to the head, it gets slightly thinner. I can't remember, since I haven't done one in a few years, but I think you are supposed to re-check the torque after a few days of running the engine and then a few weeks later. I had to retorque them once after a few days, and at the few week point, it hadn't changed, so it should be good once the gasket is done forming.

If you pull it back off after awhile, you can actually see the marks in the gasket from where it formed to all of the imperfections in the metal.

[owequitit]

i torqued the heck out of my manifold studs when installing the phenolic gasket. While later I checked again and some of the nuts were loose.

The manifold moves around and the gasket finishes compressing and re-shaping. Definitely re-torque the nuts afterward. I've considered not installing one again for this fact alone - a soft plastic spacer would be prone to tiny movements between the vibrating motor and heavy, hanging manifold... unless there is something locking the nuts I would imagine it would be an ongoing problem? but its probably not that bad if you are aware of it / check on it every so often, and hopefully it finds an equilibrium at some point.

It shouldn't be an ongoing problem if everything is correct. It will initially need retorqued as the gasket seals, but after 1 maybe 2 readjustments, it should stay put. It's the same concept as with new suspension bushings. Once you tighten them, they form a little bit, releasing the tension on the nut, making it "loose."

[owequitit]

Several years and 50+k tells me quite a bit. That's most definitely good news.

What caught my interests with the Bisimoto gasket was it being a small thing I could do while I was there and it would make some kind of small improvement even though it's likely not noticeable. My plan is to do several small things here and there and maybe once combined will make a slightly noticeable difference.

I say go for it. They aren't bad or anything, they just aren't a huge benefit. One of the things I like about them was that when you remove the manifold some time down the road, you don't have a huge amount of scraping to do in order to get the old gasket off.

It shouldn't need to be continually retorqued. Just a time or two until the gasket breaks in, and I agree, that it certainly won't hurt anything performance wise. I haven't had any issues, although I should say that a thicker gasket is likely to last longer, not that Bisi's will be an issue.

[illinois_erik]

This is one of the cheap imitation gaskets commonly bought on Ebay. The real Hondata gaskets are a much higher quality material and will not melt or damage your very expensive engine.

When I installed mine, I went with the SC instructions because well..i didnt want to touch it again,it was thread locked, and had better studs.

4. Torque the nuts to the normal factory specifications from the center of the manifold to the outside and then re-torque them after 2 hours of driving (for cars with a supercharger, torque to about 25% more since they will be inaccessible after installation is complete)

http://www.hondata.com/manuals/heats...eatshield.html


After the initial break in you shouldnt have to worry about it assuming that theyre similar thermoplastic.

[H311RA151N]

As the gasket heats and forms to the head, it gets slightly thinner. I can't remember, since I haven't done one in a few years, but I think you are supposed to re-check the torque after a few days of running the engine and then a few weeks later. I had to retorque them once after a few days, and at the few week point, it hadn't changed, so it should be good once the gasket is done forming.

If you pull it back off after awhile, you can actually see the marks in the gasket from where it formed to all of the imperfections in the metal.

Oh ok. Well that's not so bad. I can deal with that.

I say go for it. They aren't bad or anything, they just aren't a huge benefit. One of the things I like about them was that when you remove the manifold some time down the road, you don't have a huge amount of scraping to do in order to get the old gasket off.

It shouldn't need to be continually retorqued. Just a time or two until the gasket breaks in, and I agree, that it certainly won't hurt anything performance wise. I haven't had any issues, although I should say that a thicker gasket is likely to last longer, not that Bisi's will be an issue.

I think I will go ahead and get one. And yeah, scraping the remains of the old gasket off isn't much fun.

When I installed mine, I went with the SC instructions because well..i didnt want to touch it again,it was thread locked, and had better studs.


http://www.hondata.com/manuals/heats...eatshield.html


After the initial break in you shouldnt have to worry about it assuming that theyre similar thermoplastic.

That thing looks like it's not doing so well.



Thanks everyone for the help, it's much appreciated.