subrame braces

[vmchurch]

Anyone know if they make rear subframe braces for our cars.....or something that will fit ours???? I'm trying to stay away from DIY on this one

[wed3k]

like a trunk x-brace or something?

the only thing i know that is not DIY'd are lower rear tie bars, rear sways and rear upper strut bars.

[vmchurch]

trunk x brace would be nice, but im talking about the subframe brace for the sway bar so it doesn't tear out of the chassis. ASR and beaks makes em for civics, im just wondering if anyone knows if there are ones that will fit ours

[slick]

Yes Im reviving and old thread but who cares? I wanna know if anyone has modified an H brace (as its called) to fit on the cb chassis? I know they make them for the civics and integras but I haven't seen one made for an accord.

If anyone has any info I would really appreciate it

[The G-Man]

trunk x brace would be nice, but im talking about the subframe brace for the sway bar so it doesn't tear out of the chassis. ASR and beaks makes em for civics, im just wondering if anyone knows if there are ones that will fit ours

The sway bar is not going to tear away from the chassis. Especially not a stock one, those suck.

[evil_demon_01]

If you have a look at the rear lower arm mounts on the accord, compared to the Civic, you will see why they are not needed on the Accord.
The Accord Design is alot stronger than the Civic one from factory.
Sorry dont have any pics to explain better.

[slick]

If you have a look at the rear lower arm mounts on the accord, compared to the Civic, you will see why they are not needed on the Accord.
The Accord Design is alot stronger than the Civic one from factory.
Sorry dont have any pics to explain better.

I understand but it would still help some

[cp[mike]]

the cb7 has a single solid rear crossmember that the lower control arms on both sides bolt to. rear sway also bolts to this. very solid, and tie bar is completely unnecessary.

civics/tegs had each side independantly attached to the underside of the car, so a tie bar holds them together and straight.

[slick]

the cb7 has a single solid rear crossmember that the lower control arms on both sides bolt to. rear sway also bolts to this. very solid, and tie bar is completely unnecessary.

civics/tegs had each side independantly attached to the underside of the car, so a tie bar holds them together and straight.

ok so it really is useless then

[evil_demon_01]

ok so it really is useless then

For an accord - Yes

[lokuputha]

but it sure looks perti...

[cp[mike]]

ok so it really is useless then

functionally useless but thats just for the rear lower tie bar. theres still the idea of a trunk/frame brace thats used to stiffen the car body as a whole, not just the rear lower control arms.

[johnl]

the cb7 has a single solid rear crossmember that the lower control arms on both sides bolt to. rear sway also bolts to this. very solid, and tie bar is completely unnecessary.

civics/tegs had each side independantly attached to the underside of the car, so a tie bar holds them together and straight.

I don't know how strong the actual rear subframe is on CB7s (and by implication, the CD5), but the little brackets that bolt to the subframe and secure the ARB to the subframe are way too flexible. They won't break, but they flex a lot, and this has the affect of not allowing the full stiffness of the ARB to transferred into the chassis, and allows more roll and less weight transfer than would be the case if the brackets didn't flex, i.e. this flexure decreases rear roll stiffness. The affect of this flexure is very much similar to having very very soft ARB 'D' bushes, and even fitting very hard poly D bushes won't make up for it.

Try putting the car on ramps, then disconnect one end of the ARB and heave up and down on it while observing the nearer ARB bracket. I bet you'll see it move. The brackets can be taken off and reinforced by strategically welding some bracing and thickening plates onto it, but care and judgement must be used to get the bracing / strengthening right, and to ensure that you can actually get the brackets back on!

While we're in this area, also have a look at the points where the ARB links attach to the rear suspension on the radius rods. Notice that the 'studs' attaching the links to the suspension arms only do so in single shear, and that the studs are relatively long (1"+ or so). This means the studs act like 'lever arms', and forces from the ARB are fed into the suspension arms in such a manner that the suspension arms twist / deform (elastically) near the studs. This also means that the full stiffness of the ARB isn't transferred into the chassis.

It's possible to weld a re-inforcing strut onto the suspension arm that substantially reduces flexing of the suspension arm, and thus increases rear roll stiffness. Have a good look and you'll be able to figure out a way to do this, but watch out for the rubber brake line you'll need to make the strut removable because of this. The strut should have a hole at one end to fit over the stud, and be bolted to the arm lower down on a tab welded to the lower part of the suspension arm (in order to make the strut removable).

Also, the suspension arm does have to come out to do this work, but it's not that difficult to remove / replace. Another thing, the strut can attach to the stud just to the inside of the link end, in effect replacing the little bush retaining washer. This means the link is still attached in single shear, but right next to the strengthening strut, not hanging out in space so flexure is dramatically reduced.

I've done both these re-inforcing mods on my car, and there is a very noticable decrease in roll and in understeer (the result of increased weight transfer at the rear of the car), and this is only with the standard ARB, results will probably be more noticable with stiffer aftermarket ARBs.

The affect is probably ultimately less than fitting a stiffer than stock ARB, but it also means that the chassis will 'see' the ARB more quickly, so initial roll and rear weight transfer will be better controlled and more immediate regardless of the ARB fitted.

PS I later fitted poly bushes to all the ARB links and attchments, and this made a slight difference to roll and understeer, but not nearly as much as stiffening the brackets etc.

[johnl]

functionally useless but thats just for the rear lower tie bar. theres still the idea of a trunk/frame brace thats used to stiffen the car body as a whole, not just the rear lower control arms.

One of the weakest (structurally least rigid) parts of many modern sedans is the the area directly behind the rear seat back. This is because the manufacturer has thoughtfully (?) provided an aperture here to allow long loads to be passed from the luggage compartment into the rear seat space after folding the backrest down. This might be handy, but does nothing for structural integrity (i.e. chassis stiffness). This is a relatively more modern problem, older cars didn't (ever?) have such an aperture but rather had a sheet metal panel here that acted as a stressed skin, stiffening the structure.

Hatchbacks and wagons also suffer from this lack of rear rigidity in the chassis, but it tends to be even worse because they lack even the stiffening affects of the rear parcel shelf and bonded in rear window.

This lack of stiffness in this part of the chassis is why rear strut braces work (or at least good properly rigid ones work), and also why some people have found rear 'X' braces etc to also help. On my car I've made and fitted an 'X' style brace, but it doesn't extend into the luggage compartment, rather it sits directly behind the seat back where there ought to be a stressed skin but isn't. I'm not going to go into any detail as to 'how-to' with this (not after the last post, I'm typed out!), but if you think about it hard enough and are really keen you'll come up with something.

This brace along with a rear strut bar has helped improve the general feeling of stiffness / solidity, lessened understeer and improved steering response. The affects are not huge, but quite noticable and worthwhile (at least to me).

[evil_demon_01]

I don\'t know how strong the actual rear subframe is on CB7s (and by implication, the CD5), but the little brackets that bolt to the subframe and secure the ARB to the subframe are way too flexible. They won\'t break, but they flex a lot, and this has the affect of not allowing the full stiffness of the ARB to transferred into the chassis, and allows more roll and less weight transfer than would be the case if the brackets didn\'t flex, i.e. this flexure decreases rear roll stiffness. The affect of this flexure is very much similar to having very very soft ARB \'D\' bushes, and even fitting very hard poly D bushes won\'t make up for it.

The lower arms bolt to the chassis anyway not the subframe. Besides the stock rear ARB diameter is small anyway, so flex of the subframe isn\'t really going to be an issue.