So you say you don't need a camber kit????

[4CYLPOWER92]

Here is proof that you might want one, unless you or your parants are rich and don't mind buying new tires often. This was a 1.75 inch drop in the front. All other allignment spec's within normal range, camber off -1.5. This was one year of normal driving, no racing etc, and about 25,000 miles.



http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=48011

[cp[mike]]

i should get mauri to take some pics. go long enough, itll go through the tread, through the rubber, through the belts, and leave an opening straight through the tire.

[NAiL05]

Thats what my friends accord was like. Ive been riding on mine for about a year and a half and they see daily and track use they are wore to about that but belts not showing yet. Oh yea and I rotated my tires so my fronts still got full tread but the rears on the other hand look somewhat like that just without the belts. Oh yes might I add im dropped almost 2.5 inches.

[93accordEX]

hmm you sure nothing else was off? I don't drive 25,000 miles a year, but I was running about -4 degrees for a while with no camber kit and d2 coilovers... personally I would want around a degree of negative camber and have never seen a tire that bad from such a small amount of negative camber. But hopefully that kit will solve your tire wear problems.

[4CYLPOWER92]

hmm you sure nothing else was off? I don't drive 25,000 miles a year, but I was running about -4 degrees for a while with no camber kit and d2 coilovers... personally I would want around a degree of negative camber and have never seen a tire that bad from such a small amount of negative camber. But hopefully that kit will solve your tire wear problems.

Yeah, pretty sure nothing else was off, unless the printout was wrong from before. Only other thing that could account for the early wear, that I can think of, is the type of tire. I'm not going to buy those again.

[gloryaccordy]

4CYLPOWER- did you get an alignment? More importantly, when they did the alignment did they zero the toe?

Camber does not kill tires. Toe kills tires. When you lower your car, the toe and camber gets messed up and you have to bring them back to factory spec. Unfortunately without a camber kit you can't adjust the camber...however you can adjust the toe, and by zeroing that you save the tires. Peeps on H-T have backed up that theory for years and it makes sense...if you search for camber vs. toe I think you'll find a thread I started on it. Someone (aero I believe) provides a great, illustrated explanation as to why toe is the real tire killer. It just so happens that if you have excessive camber with bad toe, you get the famous "bad camber wear". But in reality it's just a combination of your tire constantly skidding and the different contact patch of the leaning tire.

With proper toe and negative camber you'll get the same "camber wear", but over a much longer interval.

[azian21485]

Here is proof that you might want one, unless you or your parants are rich and don't mind buying new tires often. This was a 1.75 inch drop in the front. All other allignment spec's within normal range, camber off -1.5. This was one year of normal driving, no racing etc, and about 25,000 miles.



http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=48011

The problem with "within specs" is that the toe is still not at zero. Hence the reason I don't bring my car to bullshit teeny bopper allignment techs who talk out of their ass.

Next time, tell them to spend a little more time and actually get total front and rear toe to zero. You can get away with a little toe out in front if you want (I measure my toe in inches..racks do them in degrees...you have to find out the machine specs and do some conversions)...1/8th total toe out is as much as I would run if you care about your tires

<---about -2.5 degrees camber with a little under 1/4th inch total toe out..no problems here...and I autoxed and drove on my tires all summer last year

[owequitit]

4CYLPOWER- did you get an alignment? More importantly, when they did the alignment did they zero the toe?

Camber does not kill tires. Toe kills tires. When you lower your car, the toe and camber gets messed up and you have to bring them back to factory spec. Unfortunately without a camber kit you can't adjust the camber...however you can adjust the toe, and by zeroing that you save the tires. Peeps on H-T have backed up that theory for years and it makes sense...if you search for camber vs. toe I think you'll find a thread I started on it. Someone (aero I believe) provides a great, illustrated explanation as to why toe is the real tire killer. It just so happens that if you have excessive camber with bad toe, you get the famous "bad camber wear". But in reality it's just a combination of your tire constantly skidding and the different contact patch of the leaning tire.

With proper toe and negative camber you'll get the same "camber wear", but over a much longer interval.

Camber and toe cause uneven wear, toe just causes it more severly and much faster. The tires are much less olerant to toe being off, but too much camber will eventually kill them too.

[gloryaccordy]

Camber and toe cause uneven wear, toe just causes it more severly and much faster. The tires are much less olerant to toe being off, but too much camber will eventually kill them too.

Well the way I see it, with toe being in spec, camber isn't a big enough issue to justify the cost of a camber kit and the downsides to running one. You might get 10K more miles out of your tires, but you'll also run the risk of destroying your UCA balljoint and/or bending your knuckle. I'd rather replace tires and keep my suspension intact.

Plus when you're at the point where camber becomes a serious issue you're low enough that a camber kit might prove to be a detriment. It's all sacrifices.

[optimusprime]

Camber and toe cause uneven wear, toe just causes it more severly and much faster. The tires are much less olerant to toe being off, but too much camber will eventually kill them too.

This is true camber wears the inside of the tire as shown and toe wears across the tire. I am dumped and have little camber wear as well as toe. I do my own alignments and they are 4 wheel alignments. I usually try to put my car as well as my friends at about 1deg for neg camber at the most. Usually any more will cause heavy camber wear. The other thing is to rotate your tires. This helps keep them wearing evenly and get more life out of the tire. I do many alignments and work on many different cars. Sometimes they just act differently.

Also Caster cause cars to pull. It is a bit tricky fixing the caster on accords cause of the raidus rods. I still need to figure out how to fix mine.

4CYLPOWER92: dude hit me up in SD I can align your car. Let me know. PM me or something.

[TypeG]

just unmount the tire and turn it around so the outside edge is now on the inside. i personally hate camber kits and won't have one. later.

[SSMAccord]

i think camber kits are mostly for use by people who take their cars auto-xing or to track days, by helping to dial-in suspension settings. on the street however, a good alignment and regularly rotating your tires should give them an even wear pattern and a decent amount of treadlife.

[owequitit]

Well the way I see it, with toe being in spec, camber isn't a big enough issue to justify the cost of a camber kit and the downsides to running one. You might get 10K more miles out of your tires, but you'll also run the risk of destroying your UCA balljoint and/or bending your knuckle. I'd rather replace tires and keep my suspension intact.

Plus when you're at the point where camber becomes a serious issue you're low enough that a camber kit might prove to be a detriment. It's all sacrifices.

To some extent this is true, but I disagree that a good quality camber kit will ruin anything. To many people run crappy hardware, or are dumb, and bend stuff, or are repeating what they have heard. Of all the people you see running camber hardware, how many are running EBAY stuff, and not the name brand kind either. Besides, I don't see one bending a ball joint, or especially the knuckle, because it isn't changine the geometry that much, and I have seen the kind of force it takes to bend a knuckle. I have seen cars that people were hospitalized in, under all sorts of crash circumstances and the knuckles were perfectly straight, or almost so.

I was told I couldn't put 215/45 on my car because they would rub, and they didn't. Then I was told that I wouldn't be able to run that with the car dropped because it would rub, and it doesn't...

All by people who "knew."

Plus, how many pairs of $500-600 dollar really nice sticky tire sets do you have to get an extra 10,000 miles out of before you offset the cost of a camber kit? At less than $400 for a good camber setup, I figure maybe 2 or 3 at the most. When you drive 25K per year like I do in mine, that doesn't take long, plus I don't have to worry about keeping an eye on the tires as much, and I can dial in a setup that exactly meets my needs.

With my car dropped just under 2" I have about 2.8 degrees negative camber per side, and I was noticing accelerated inner tire wear in less than 3K miles with cheap ass hard tires on the wheels. Same with my stocks.

If you like camber (my car handles great with it in there), or just don't want to deal with it, then by all means don't correct it. But don't have the misconception that it won't increase the wear on your tires.

Again, that isn't aimed at just you Glory.

[owequitit]

just unmount the tire and turn it around so the outside edge is now on the inside. i personally hate camber kits and won't have one. later.

A good alternative.

[floored]

just unmount the tire and turn it around so the outside edge is now on the inside. i personally hate camber kits and won't have one. later.

LIL LATE FOR THAT BUT YEA HE SHOUODLVE DONE THAT AS WELL AS ROTATION N SHIT