Software and Music Piracy

[ACC0RD22]

Im looking for your thoughts and opinions on Software Piracy. Not because I have any paper or anything due on it, but because its something that alot of people seem to do on a daily basis, and, sometimes, I even feel guilty about it.

Personally, I run my Dell using OSx86. For those of you who dont know what that is, it is, essentially, a hacked copy of Apple's OS X that allows it to run on PC's with generic Hardware, and PC's that use BIOS, instead of EFI. In a way, its why I made this thread. Piracy in this form, in my honest opinion, actually HELPS the company that is affected. Many people who run OSx86 machines never owned a Mac, or had any plans to do so. After using it, some go buy Macs. However, the overwhelming majority of the people who do use OSx86 either couldnt afford to buy a mac (i.e. me), or wouldnt have anyways, for various reasons. I had never really tried OS X before I installed it on my Dell. I was getting pissed with windows, and I loved the GUI that OS X provided. So, I tried OSx86 out. Now, I plan on making my next computer purchase a Mac. In a way, Apple Computers is MAKING money off of it. I would buy a copy of the OS to validate my use, but that wouldnt help me much, since, even though the OS is Open Source, Apple's ASPL does not allow its installation on non-Apple hardware.

Another program that seems to be widely pirated is Adobe Photoshop. I have downloaded quite a few copies of this myself. Again, its software that I would not be able to afford, so Adobe really isnt losing a customer, but they are gaining a POTENTIAL customer.

Music is something that I download alot as well. However, I buy 75% of the CDs that I download, because of the shitty CD player in my car, that doesnt allow me to play burned copies of CDs. I would buy them anyways, since I like to have a real copy of the CD, and thats just how I am. However, without this wonderful resource, I wouldnt listen to at least 50% of the music that I listen to on a daily basis now, since I got introduced to most of it by downloading it illegally. Again, a company that is trying to strike this down is actually making money off of me still. I enjoy downloading music, because its like getting a test drive with a CD before I buy it. I wouldnt blindly buy a car, or a computer even, without trying it out first. Now, I understand that a CD is a substantially smaller investment, but in my mind, its all equal.

The countermeasures that are trying to stop Music piracy are highly detrimental to the community as well. Music that can only be played on a few computers before the copy protection stops it from being useful anymore? I feel that if I purchase a CD, I should be able to do with it whatever I damn well please. In a way, those things are encouraging piracy, since most files that are downloadable are free of these ridiculous restrictions, and are the same songs that would be found on the CD.

Games and Movies are also affected, but I have never, personally, downloaded a movie or game that is commercially available for sale, so I dont feel inclined to comment on that matter.

What do you guys think about it?

[accordaffair]

sudo apt-get install ubuntu

its free and its unix (so its almost like mac), good support, good OS

....it is illegal, but I don't think someone will pursue your arrest, so..

it's only wrong if you get caught, but is it illegal if no one cares enough to catch you?

I say obtain it by whatever means necessary if you want to see whether its good or not, from there you can decide if you want to buy it for the purpose of supporting the company..

let me also say I bought a dvd that was drm'd and it wouldn't play in my computers dvd player, only in my home theaters dvd player. Needless to say, I was pretty pissed at that.

[ACC0RD22]

I guess I should clarify. Im not worried about being arrested for any of this, and the thread isnt really intended to discuss the ramifications of Software and Music Piracy.

I would install Ubuntu, and if I do ever try Linux that will most likely be the distro of my choice. However, I chose OS X for its unique GUI and features, not solely because it was UNIX based.

[sackingz123]

sudo apt-get install ubuntu

its free and its unix (so its almost like mac), good support, good OS

....it is illegal, but I don't think someone will pursue your arrest, so..

it's only wrong if you get caught, but is it illegal if no one cares enough to catch you?

I say obtain it by whatever means necessary if you want to see whether its good or not, from there you can decide if you want to buy it for the purpose of supporting the company..

let me also say I bought a dvd that was drm'd and it wouldn't play in my computers dvd player, only in my home theaters dvd player. Needless to say, I was pretty pissed at that.

they are programs out there that will decrpypt (sp?) it so it will be region free, idk if this is the case...

[accordaffair]

they are programs out there that will decrpypt (sp?) it so it will be region free, idk if this is the case...

I don't know why it wouldn't, it auto-played some kind of flash program, and when I tried to play it, it just sat there.....

but on the home theaters dvd it played like nothing was different. I just hate when companies implement something against my will that hurts the innocent. They should trade me for a non-drm version since I paid for it.

[accordaffair]

Let me also say that there is a way to gain customers like you say, by being impressed with the quality of their software, without it being illegal to try it first.

Make it free! Then its not illegal. If the customer is impressed, they will buy from that company.

Google's done that before, most notable to me is google earth. That used to be pay-for software called keyhole, and it wasn't as good as google earth is now. Google bought them out, made it better, then made it free!

Things like that gains them rep. They knew what they were doing. They could have been like any other company and just resold it to try to make a small profit. Instead they made it free and many, many more people learned of the google name as a result.

Of course something like making an OS free is much more difficult....

But I say follow the aforementioned example by google, like the guy on tv who "gives away the free computer learning lessons", if the product is good, people will come back to buy, but there has to be a good incentive to draw them in in the first place.

btw, have you tried the gimp? its guilt and cost-free and to a layman like me its just as good as photoshop

[AccordWarrior]

I feel that much of the music I am into I would not have been if it was not for mp3 downloading.

Radio hardly plays any of the music I like. My options are either to download a few songs off the album to see if I enjoy it or buy the album and keep my fingers crossed that I didn't get something crappy.

A lot of the songs I download are demos, alternate versions and/or live versions of songs. I don't view things like that nearly as bad as downloading whole new albumbs. For example, I don't know where you could get a copy of Finch's song "Mr. Kendall (apologetic theory)" without grabbing it offline.

Also, a lot of places I download from are now places like PureVolume, which is free. However, a lot of the artists on there don't have widespread distribution deals, which makes it next to impossible to buy their CD, short of getting it from their website, and after all the charges implemented, ends up being 5-10 more than a standard CD. I know it's the whole "support the artist" thing, but I'd much rather see them live and buy some merch than anything.

I just have a very hard time justifying buying an entire CD for one good song that I'll like for awhile and then grow weary of. However, if I find a band that I like via an MP3, I'll be much more likely to go out and buy more CDs.

For example, when I first started listening to Coheed and Cambria, I just had a single song on my computer. I downloaded a few others recommended by my friend, then I went to a show of theirs. Afterwards I went out and bought two of their CDs and ended up buying the newest CD the day it came out.

I think MP3's is a way to force an artist to make a CD of 12 quality tracks, not just one hit, and the rest of the album a dud. I have CD's that literally have 2 songs on it I'll listen to and the rest I won't...is that worth $12-15?

[Ralphie]

i agree with all of the feelings expressed thus far!

Ive dl way too much.

Dreamweaver, Photoshop Cs, Freehand, programs that allow you to actually make video games, assorted graphic design programs.

Music, movies, and games. Ive dl quite a bit of PS2 Iso files and burned them and play them regularly since my ps2 is chipped.

To date ive never payed for an OS. Albeit ive only used Windows but i feel Gates doesnt need any more money so why the fuck should i pay 100 for Xp? Fuck him. Maybe thats a brash attitude but he hasnt lost any sleep over it.

And music i agree totally, ive bought dozens of cds because i dl a few tracks and was impressed. I think it will force the artist to make a cd of 12 quality tracks as opposed to 2 good tracks and 8 or 9 repeating shit songs. Like The Distiller's "Coral Fang". I love them and there older shit rocks but i bought Coral Fang and was disgusted. Not impressed whatsoever, but i didnt "test" it out first. So i had to sell it for less then i paid. Sucks. Movies id rather buy as well because having a blank cd with some writing doesnt compare to a collectors edition Pulp Fiction or Seven or Star Wars. Just doesnt, id take store bought any day for movies over bootleg.

I too feel bad at times but then again most of the music i dl is from bands that are either way fucking rich already(like Zeppelin or Black Sabbath) or not a group any more(like Nirvana or Rage Against The Machine) so they really dont lose out. I can see where it hurts new artists that need sales. But if its good ill buy it.


And furthermore if they didnt want us to being doing all this piracy shit they shouldnt have released burning software and dvdrw's. If you offer it to the public we are going to make use of it, and some of us are going to get damn good use out of it so blah cry me a river lol.

[ACC0RD22]

btw, have you tried the gimp? its guilt and cost-free and to a layman like me its just as good as photoshop

Ill admit that Ive been meaning to switch to free software such as the GIMP or OOo, or Neo Office for a while, but I just havent for one reason or another. While it is a hassle to learn a new program, it will be worth not going through the hassle of illegally downloading things, and worrying about the validation keys working.

And furthermore if they didnt want us to being doing all this piracy shit they shouldnt have released burning software and dvdrw's. If you offer it to the public we are going to make use of it, and some of us are going to get damn good use out of it so blah cry me a river lol.

This is one point that I disagree with. In a way its like the government shutting down the gnutella network. A large number of free, and legal, files were shared over that network, and it was a great resource for authors to get thier work out there without having to be published. Torrent files can now fill this void, but not everyone is able to use those, so the ease of use is lost. Trying to make that case is like trying to make the case that the government should be able to look at computers to protect the children from child porn. On the surface, it seems like a perfectly fine arguement, until you delve deeper and realize that the power that is granted because of "protecting the children from child porn" or the progress that is halted by "protecting the corporations from people stealing movies" is more detrimental to society than the act that caused it.

[cp[mike]]

i feel the same way you do, mark.

i have been a huge contribution to the piracy industry. while i download tons of CDs, i buy the ones i like... and i wouldnt know i liked them unless i had and listened to them first. i dont buy CDs on a whim, and most of the ones i downloaded for free i never would have purchased in the first place. they didnt lose any money on me pirating it, and because i dont distribute it in any way, they arent losing any money from anybody else through me either.

same goes for software - i have tons of software, some single pieces worth over $2k themselves. i would NEVER have purchased any of them, minus the small ones. because ive been able to play and learn on them while ive been growing up, im now a huge fan of them, and when it comes time, they will be receiving ALL of my business.

i dont feel bad in the slightest, and probably never will... they have every right to get pissed at piracy and the people making their stuff accessible for free, but on my end, im not ruining their business

[deevergote]

I've read that the music industry has actually been more profitable since the advent of Napster (which was pretty much the start of widespread file sharing). Now, I don't recall where I read it, or if the source was accurate... but I could believe it.

Before downloading, people still found ways to pirate computer-based things. Computer games and programs were copied onto floppies or CDs, music was copied onto tapes or burned onto CDs, movies were copied onto cheap VHS blanks. Console games were not easy to pirate, but even today, emulation and "tricks" to use burned games are imperfect at best. There are no good emulators out for anything currently being sold (aside from the handheld systems, like GBA). Hell, they're still trying to get the Dreamcast emulators to work properly!


Is piracy acceptable? Not really. It's still stealing. For those that use it as a "try before you buy" option, it IS a help to the big companies. For those that would never purchase a product otherwise, it's really not a threat... though the companies may see it as such. Hell, a free download of an expensive copy of Photoshop may not hurt Adobe, since you'll never pay for it... but it may hurt some lesser-known developer that has a graphics suite that suits your needs and budget. If you could purchase a graphics program that gave you all the features you'd ever use in Photoshop for $50, you may buy that... if Photoshop weren't availible to pirate for free!

Regardless, I'm just playing devil's advocate. I can't remember the last time I paid for music, software, anime, etc... Then again, most of the music I download I DO own... on tape. Most of the anime I download isn't in the US yet. And most of the software I download isn't used often enough to justify the cost. Does that make it justifiable? Probably not.

[cp[mike]]

Is piracy acceptable? Not really. It's still stealing. For those that use it as a "try before you buy" option, it IS a help to the big companies. For those that would never purchase a product otherwise, it's really not a threat... though the companies may see it as such. Hell, a free download of an expensive copy of Photoshop may not hurt Adobe, since you'll never pay for it... but it may hurt some lesser-known developer that has a graphics suite that suits your needs and budget. If you could purchase a graphics program that gave you all the features you'd ever use in Photoshop for $50, you may buy that... if Photoshop weren't availible to pirate for free!

Regardless, I'm just playing devil's advocate. I can't remember the last time I paid for music, software, anime, etc... Then again, most of the music I download I DO own... on tape. Most of the anime I download isn't in the US yet. And most of the software I download isn't used often enough to justify the cost. Does that make it justifiable? Probably not.

what about those who need the functionality of the "big" software, but can only afford the cheap software? if i couldnt get copies of PS, id be stuck with shitty GIMP (photoshop wannabe), which is free. im still not paying a cent, and the bank accounts of both companies are still unaffected.

[deevergote]

Very true. If you wouldn't ever pay for graphics software, then nobody is hurt. At worst, you're advertising for Adobe for free when you talk about them!

[growguy]

i dont feel bad in the slightest, and probably never will... they have every right to get pissed at piracy and the people making their stuff accessible for free, but on my end, im not ruining their business

x2.

i own a mac and though panther was included with my powerbook i didn't hesitate to get a copied of tiger burned. it's good because there is no cd keys or activation bullshit. i also pirated toast (absurd to want $70 for a burning program). there are now burning programs available for mac that do more than toast does for FREE. i've also pirated iWork and Photoshop among other programs. In no way do i feel guilty for pirating apps, but i do buy ones that i'm going to use on a regular basis and are priced under $30.

for ps2 games, i will admit i am quite an asshole. i have about 9 legit ps2 games, some dating back to the ps2 launch. i have about 50 or 60 burnt ps2 games, many that i havent played in ages or never got into.

it dosen't help that i'm a member of a private forum where you can buy backups of ps2/xbox/gamecube/dvds for about $2 a disc on quality media.

[ACC0RD22]

The RIAA wants the internet shut down. Im being serious. The MPAA, and the US Government (to a certain extent) have backed them. This should be interesting.

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/nov...06shutdown.htm