Feeling the Age

[Nurega]

I took a trip this weekend from Los Angeles to Las Vegas in what must have been the hottest weather I've seen in the USA. The temperature peaked at 116°F when I was crossing the Mojave Desert both times, and never went below 95 degrees during any other part of the 640-mile round trip. I was driving with 100lbs+ of luggage and 550lbs of people (including myself).

The A/C struggled to provide barely-adequate cooling and took such a load out of the engine that city driving became an exercise in not pissing off my passengers. The power delivery became extremely rough at all revs, especially when starting off from a stop. At stoplights, every time the A/C compressor turned on, the engine idle dropped to 500-650RPM. I ended up keeping my foot on the gas at stoplights, around 2000RPM, in fear of the car shutting off.

Furthermore, with the approximately 650lbs load, the F22A4 was simply not up to the task of city stop/go driving. Every run up to 40mph required keeping the revs up; any upshift that put the revs below 2300 left the car bogging with little acceleration. I have never felt this car so grossly underpowered since I took it on a family vacation to high-altitude Oregon a year ago.

On the highway, everything was blissful despite the heat. The A/C doesn't drag too much out of the engine, and I could cruise at 80mph all day long without a hint of fatigue. The A/C only had difficulty crossing the Mojave Desert, where the cooling became next to nil; I noticed this because my rowdy passengers suddenly fell asleep (from the heat) during that 22-mile stretch.

Long story short, I have honestly never felt the age of my Accord this intensely until this trip. Sure, the balljoints squeak and the structure feels a little flexy over bumps, but this was entirely different. Upon returning to 85°F Los Angeles, the A/C immediately went back to ice-cold operation, power delivery returned to relative smoothness, and sluggishness off the line became more than manageable. The heat must have seriously pulled a number on the car.

I feel like I'm ranting, so I'll post a concluding question for discussion. For those of you who have owned your Accords for a long time, how have the added years affected your cars adversely? I was very happy to get through the desert after seeing so many newer and modern cars overheated on the side of the road, but the old girl just doesn't feel the same as she did 30,000 miles ago.

[Losiracer2]

My CB7 has spent its entire life in AZ. It has its goods and bads. I don't have a hint of rust anywhere on the car but the paint is beginning to show its age.
The roof on my coupe is pretty much shot, very sun damaged, its starting to look whitish in some spots, the trunklid is getting there.

Even my H22 struggles sometimes in the heat. It must've been 117 today and it feels like the engine suffers from heatsoak a lot. Especially w/ running all the accessories (A/C, PS, Fog lights, 4ch Amp).

But having the extra 70 hp really helps when it gets this hot. I also have a bone stock 90' EX sedan but its 5spd so it helps. I remember when I was Auto tranny in both the F22A6 and my H22 w/ the MP0A and it was even worse with that, felt SO sluggish and I basically had to floor the car to even get a decent start, even with the H22.

So yeah, basically anything rubber doesn't last very long here (motor mounts, door seals, tires). Batteries usually have a max life of 4 yrs or so, thats partly why I relocated mine to the trunk to keep it cooler. You've got to make sure you cooling system is in check, especially before summer hits. I drain and fill the coolant every 2 years here since it gets so hot. I also swap the MTF every 4 oil changes, fluids definitely take a beating here.

Also anything underhood seems to suffer a lot more (electronics mainly), thats why I wrapped my header to keep it slightly cooler while keeping the exhaust gases hot on the inside for better tumble. All the wires seem to get a lot more brittle over the years.

But my A/C still runs on R12 on the coupe and I just got this 90' EX Sedan a month or two ago and it has R134a. Usually takes about 10-15 min to cool the car down completely if sitting out in the sun for a couple hrs, cool air starts blowing about 2 min into driving after I roll down all the windows and evac all the hot air out. But having window tint really helps. I'm thinking about increasing mine back to 15% in front, I reduced it to 35% b/c Tucson cops are dicks and gave me a hassle.

Luckily, all my friends are skinny and in shape lol. The most I've usually hauled around is my 200lb friend and the car isn't as fast, but thats whats going to happen. When you change the weight of your car from 3000 lbs to 3650 lbs lol....thats almost 2 tons there w/ only 130hp and add extreme heat to that? yeah its going to tax the engine a lot.

I did however transport a MP0A Auto tranny in the trunk and took out my pass seat in my coupe and put my H22 in there when I was getting it swapped back in 08' and it definitely felt more sluggish lol.

[skilzz]

cant wait for winter. i dont know if me being happy ifor it is a good thing tho

ill admit my cars alway seem slower/underpowered on road trips. i thinks its just the fact there so much space to galop but very tiny ponies under the hood

[toycar]

Well maybe its time you vagina's did at the least an upper engine rebuild and sealed the motor back up correctly.

Fix your suspension that squeaks.




Why does any of this stuff surprise any of you? With a freakin quarter million miles on the car, of course its gonna slow down.

Ill tell you this much, the car isnt the issue, the mechanics on the car are.
(not people that work on the car, the mechanical functions of the car)

The car wouldn't be "sluggish" or "die at idle with a/c on" when it was new.


Sounds to me like mechanically, some things on the car(s) arent up to spec. I feel if your going to own a 20+ year old car, you have to be proactive about fixing anything and everything that comes up. Or else you end up with a car thats sluggish around town, idle's like shit with the a/c on, squeaks alot, suffers from "body roll" over bumps etc....



Bushing kit, suspension rebuild, upper engine rebuild-done the right way, base idle reset-maybe new parts involved in solving the idle issue, a/c recharge, greased door jams, replace weather seals, problem(s) described- solved.


Maybe its just me, but cars are just car parts put together. How good are your parts?

[islandhopper]

Well maybe its time you vagina's did at the least an upper engine rebuild and sealed the motor back up correctly.

Fix your suspension that squeaks.




Why does any of this stuff surprise any of you? With a freakin quarter million miles on the car, of course its gonna slow down.

Ill tell you this much, the car isnt the issue, the mechanics on the car are.
(not people that work on the car, the mechanical functions of the car)

The car wouldn't be "sluggish" or "die at idle with a/c on" when it was new.


Sounds to me like mechanically, some things on the car(s) arent up to spec. I feel if your going to own a 20+ year old car, you have to be proactive about fixing anything and everything that comes up. Or else you end up with a car thats sluggish around town, idle's like shit with the a/c on, squeaks alot, suffers from "body roll" over bumps etc....



Bushing kit, suspension rebuild, upper engine rebuild-done the right way, base idle reset-maybe new parts involved in solving the idle issue, a/c recharge, greased door jams, replace weather seals, problem(s) described- solved.


Maybe its just me, but cars are just car parts put together. How good are your parts?

Agreed.

Preventative maintenance can remedy the cars 'age' issue.

Mine just passed 270,xxx miles and still running strong. (Motor Rebuilt 1/15/09). Suspension was redone with new ES and Prothane bushings all around with Megan EZ coilovers. And i actually just lubed up my door hinges a week or two ago...and i pretty much fix whatever issue pops up right away...don't have A/C though, but wutev..it's usually cold up here anyway and the heater get nice'n'toasty...

[LadyG]

Air conditioning works by removing humidity from the air. If you are crossing the desert/live in a arid climate your a/c will not work as well as it would in a more humid climate, because there is little-to-no moisture in the air with which to cool what comes outta your vents.
Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[toycar]

Air conditioning works by removing humidity from the air. :

That's not 100% true. When freon is compressed/condensed it cycles from being gas/liquid. That process is where the cold comes from. Freon cycles through coils, and the atmosphere cools the coils. Just like a radiator.

The humidity issue more has to due with cooling the coils, then creating the coldness. Just like a radiator. If the radiator cannot breathe, it wont cool. The atmospheric humidity is not the condensation that collects from the a/c. That condensation is formed during the compression of the gas. Some moisture is extracted from the atmosphere, but there's a bit of a misunderstanding as to how much of the water pooling under you air conditioned car is actually from the atmosphere.

Compressed gas (freon) gets hot before becoming a cold liquid. The temp change causes condensation.

[cp[mike]]

Well maybe its time you vagina's did at the least an upper engine rebuild and sealed the motor back up correctly.

Fix your suspension that squeaks.




Why does any of this stuff surprise any of you? With a freakin quarter million miles on the car, of course its gonna slow down.

Ill tell you this much, the car isnt the issue, the mechanics on the car are.
(not people that work on the car, the mechanical functions of the car)

The car wouldn't be "sluggish" or "die at idle with a/c on" when it was new.


Sounds to me like mechanically, some things on the car(s) arent up to spec. I feel if your going to own a 20+ year old car, you have to be proactive about fixing anything and everything that comes up. Or else you end up with a car thats sluggish around town, idle's like shit with the a/c on, squeaks alot, suffers from "body roll" over bumps etc....



Bushing kit, suspension rebuild, upper engine rebuild-done the right way, base idle reset-maybe new parts involved in solving the idle issue, a/c recharge, greased door jams, replace weather seals, problem(s) described- solved.


Maybe its just me, but cars are just car parts put together. How good are your parts?

+1 on every word. im struggling to think of anything else to add. being proactive in maintenance and tweaks is the only solution. head rebuild/refresh, full tuneup, seafoam & such, cooling system inspection+flush. disassemble and clean the buildup out of all of the idle passages, and do a valve adjustment, set timing, set idle (the proper way), tweak FIV. maybe a few upgrades, like a rad fan that pushes more air.

my sedan has 260k+ and i barely notice its age, minus the rust and styling. no AC, but it keeps on chugging... because im meticulous with maintenance

[19dabeast85]

I'm a meticulous maintainer also and my cb7 with 249k still runs very well. New suspension makes it respond confidently, new radiator flushed every 3 years with a thermostat change BEFORE it fails, keep dirt washed out of the condenser and radiator fins, change oil and filter regularly with quality products, keep the air filter clean, adjust the valves every 25k, etc...

This is not a fix but may be something to try: My car used to run coolant temps of 180-200 in the heat of the Summer. I added a bottle of water wetter by Redline to my coolant system and it made a significant difference. My temps are now 170-190. I saw a definite and consistent 10* F drop in temps under the same operating conditions....I thought for years that stuff was a joke but proved myself wrong, it really helps!

[Tippey764]

Air conditioning works by removing humidity from the air. If you are crossing the desert/live in a arid climate your a/c will not work as well as it would in a more humid climate, because there is little-to-no moisture in the air with which to cool what comes outta your vents.
Just thought I'd throw that out there.

No thats not how it works

when the refrigerant passes from the high pressure line through a small orifice into the low pressure line the rapid drop in pressure results in the refrigerant cooling very rapidly.

It does however remove moisture because it condensates onto the very cold evaporator coil.

[Nurega]

Well maybe its time you vagina's did at the least an upper engine rebuild and sealed the motor back up correctly.

Fix your suspension that squeaks.

Why does any of this stuff surprise any of you? With a freakin quarter million miles on the car, of course its gonna slow down.
Ill tell you this much, the car isnt the issue, the mechanics on the car are.
(not people that work on the car, the mechanical functions of the car)

The car wouldn't be "sluggish" or "die at idle with a/c on" when it was new.
Sounds to me like mechanically, some things on the car(s) arent up to spec. I feel if your going to own a 20+ year old car, you have to be proactive about fixing anything and everything that comes up. Or else you end up with a car thats sluggish around town, idle's like shit with the a/c on, squeaks alot, suffers from "body roll" over bumps etc....

Bushing kit, suspension rebuild, upper engine rebuild-done the right way, base idle reset-maybe new parts involved in solving the idle issue, a/c recharge, greased door jams, replace weather seals, problem(s) described- solved.
Maybe its just me, but cars are just car parts put together. How good are your parts?

How good are my parts? Its a one-owner car that was serviced regularly at Honda dealerships until 2002, then at a Honda specialist since.
I have new bushings, ball-joints, and motor mount replacements planned for when I graduate college in a few months. I do take care of this car very well; I regularly do valve adjustments myself, get it serviced at 5,000 mile intervals, and have followed the proper base-idle procedure since 2009. Like I mentioned in original post, my idle returned to perfection after returning to 85-degree weather.
The point I was going for was the sudden onset of idle/AC issues that cropped up in the heat. I never had these issues before; the car normally runs as well as my father's TSX.
I'll agree with you that the A/C needs a recharge and a thorough check for other issues. The power-delivery roughness it creates is definitely not normal.

Air conditioning works by removing humidity from the air. If you are crossing the desert/live in a arid climate your a/c will not work as well as it would in a more humid climate, because there is little-to-no moisture in the air with which to cool what comes outta your vents.
Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Speaking as a chemical engineer, this is actually incorrect - Tippey's explanation above is spot-on

+1 on every word. im struggling to think of anything else to add. being proactive in maintenance and tweaks is the only solution. head rebuild/refresh, full tuneup, seafoam & such, cooling system inspection+flush. disassemble and clean the buildup out of all of the idle passages, and do a valve adjustment, set timing, set idle (the proper way), tweak FIV. maybe a few upgrades, like a rad fan that pushes more air.

my sedan has 260k+ and i barely notice its age, minus the rust and styling. no AC, but it keeps on chugging... because im meticulous with maintenance

When would you say a head rebuild is warranted? I'm currently at 182,000 miles with not a hint of engine roughness until the A/C is switched on. It is quite a day-and-night difference comparing the engine's operation with A/C on vs off.
I'll definitely be cleaning out the idle passages, EGR ports, and doing a valve adjustment when I get a break from college next month. Thank you for your tips, cpMike.

I'm a meticulous maintainer also and my cb7 with 249k still runs very well. New suspension makes it respond confidently, new radiator flushed every 3 years with a thermostat change BEFORE it fails, keep dirt washed out of the condenser and radiator fins, change oil and filter regularly with quality products, keep the air filter clean, adjust the valves every 25k, etc...

I consider myself to be a meticulous maintainer as well. No part has failed on this car except for the VSS and the power-antenna motor; I had the radiator replaced when it was started to show signs of problems (common on our cars) back in 2003. As an engineer, I do understand the merits of preventative maintenance.

My CB7 has spent its entire life in AZ. It has its goods and bads. I don't have a hint of rust anywhere on the car but the paint is beginning to show its age.
The roof on my coupe is pretty much shot, very sun damaged, its starting to look whitish in some spots, the trunklid is getting there.

Even my H22 struggles sometimes in the heat. It must've been 117 today and it feels like the engine suffers from heatsoak a lot. Especially w/ running all the accessories (A/C, PS, Fog lights, 4ch Amp).

But having the extra 70 hp really helps when it gets this hot. I also have a bone stock 90' EX sedan but its 5spd so it helps. I remember when I was Auto tranny in both the F22A6 and my H22 w/ the MP0A and it was even worse with that, felt SO sluggish and I basically had to floor the car to even get a decent start, even with the H22.

But my A/C still runs on R12 on the coupe and I just got this 90' EX Sedan a month or two ago and it has R134a. Usually takes about 10-15 min to cool the car down completely if sitting out in the sun for a couple hrs, cool air starts blowing about 2 min into driving after I roll down all the windows and evac all the hot air out.

The most I've usually hauled around is my 200lb friend and the car isn't as fast, but thats whats going to happen. When you change the weight of your car from 3000 lbs to 3650 lbs lol....thats almost 2 tons there w/ only 130hp and add extreme heat to that? yeah its going to tax the engine a lot.

You pose very good points with the weight increases and heat. I can't imagine driving my Accord daily in that 117-degree heat!

When pulling away from a few stoplights, I did switch the A/C off to try and pinpoint the problem. The power delivery, though weak, became smooth again. There's definitely something wrong with that A/C - I'll get it checked out.

[LadyG]

Well, Hello! I learned something today!

[thepowderblue]

how hot did your car get on the temp gauge? above normal?
If you think it gets to hot during the summer upgrade your rad.

[JDMDriver]

Just putting my two cents in here and by no means an expert

1) Aircon not as cold as in California during the desert trip

Ambient temperature affects the coolness of the airconditioned air that blows inside the cabin.

If it blows cold air when you got to California chances are its working as it should but was not enough to compensate for the really hot ambient temperature and several passengers inside all warm blooded exhailing hot air.

2) Slightly sluggish or sluggish performance

Warm or hot air is thinner than cold air (hence why turbos and normally aspirated engines love cold air intakes).

Crossing a really hot dessert means the air is thinner (less fuel air mixture possible) so less fuel is being burnt for the same level of depression on the accelerator pedal.

Add to the mix a full compliment of passengers and luggage then compare it to the performance of the car in ideal conditions (cool air, no luggage, single passenger, maybe even no aircon to cause drag etc) and the difference is dramatic (negative and disappointing comparison).

Your accord may be working perfectly (granted that maybe it can still benefit from some maintenance) but the above is my explanation as to why the sudden and dramatic change in driving experience (aircon and driving wise)

Fact that it got you through safe and sound (no break downs compared to newer cars that did) is testament our accord (yours in particular) is still better. In all intents and purposes it may still be more capable and up to the challenge (where the many supposedly newer cars were not are merely posers - purporting to be more reliable but are not).