Mental/Anxiety/Attention Disorders - Real or imagined?

[visualpoet]

This thread is to address GeoffM and his beliefs (as well as anyone else's) that certain mental afflictions are purely imaginary vs. those that believe they are a mis-wiring or a chemical imbalance in the brain. I'd like to invite anyone with an opinion to voice it, but I'd like to keep this a civil, rational, discussion between intelligent people, no matter what they believe. I started it in order to have this discussion without threadjacking someone else's thread completely.

1. We can start it back up....
2. My cousin has a panic issue. Not saying you're the same, but seriously, you can't just take a breath, slow everything down, take a step back, and realize that it's never as bad as you think it is?
If its actually gotten worse, then it's because your body has gotten used to it and now accepts that it's ok.
3. Nobody can provide unarguable research on anything. Remember the dinosaur argument?
4. I'm not saying this just for laughs. Like I said earlier, it's all part of a greater view. I can't tell you all of it on here, because it goes against the rules in a big way. But I expressed another chunk of my views in the "american cars suck, here's why" thread.
5. Also, I was wearing a helmet this time. I thought about what a great decision that was as my head bounced off the concrete at 20mph.

1: Okay.

2: I actually have very little stress that I can't manage by myself. I learned long ago that worrying and stressing only makes a situation worse. It's the surprise panic attacks for no reason at all that are my problem.
I fought this problem for a long time until I sought medical help. It was very hard for me to come to terms with the fact that there were factors inside my own brain that I couldn't manage.
Awake, yes, it's much more manageable, however it has caused me to have irrational thoughts that are anxiety related; my mind tends to blow things out of proportion, and I can step back, take a breath and keep it under control, but the thoughts are still there and pop up unexectedly. However, when I wake up in the middle of the night in the middle of a full blown panic attack, cold sweat, crazy pulse rate, almost hyperventilating, it's just a little unsettling and it does affect my life in a very negative way. Or in the middle of a beautiful afternoon, nothing bothering me, my life is peaceful and calm and out of nowhere I can feel the anxiety building for no reason other than the chemicals in my body are out of whack. I've used meditation for years, and have had sessions interrupted by a panic attack. These are not attacks I've thought myself into, they just happen.

3: Let's say as unarguable as possible, realistically speaking, beyond a shadow of a doubt in court, documented, etc.

4: No offense, but I gave you more intellectual credit for this. You should be more willing to keep an open mind and be willing to change. Just because you've decided that something is so doesn't make it so. When you're confronted with an overwhelming amount of evidence to the contrary, and very little evidence to your own belief, it might just mean that you're wrong.

5: That doesn't mean your brain didn't get rattled.

Common sense and logic are the basis for all of my opinions.



I suppose not. But like I said earlier, I do differentiate between people who are actually handicapped (Downs, Autism) and the "it's all in your head" crowd. I suppose I could go to the doctor and complain that I have difficulty concentrating.
Guess what? Now I have OCC/ADD/Whatever else he can bill insurance for, and now I have meds! Thankfully I have those meds, as now I can get through life with a crutch



I think it happens more as you get older. You lose sight of things like this and start to let everything go.

What common sense and logic do you have to use as a rebuttal against medical and scientific research and data collected, studied, applied and used successfully (and an unsuccessful attempt is still progress; now you know something that doesn't work)?


How do you differentiate between someone with ADD, ADHD, an anxiety disorder, etc. and someone with Autism? What criteria are you using to decide that the first group is just imagining it and the second group has something different going on inside their skulls?

As far as getting older, I see more and more how little I truly know and understand every day. I haven't lost sight of a damn thing.

[cb7_with_snail]

Very real both my brother, my self and my two year old have all be diagnosed with a severe case of adhd. And I can tell geoff that not only is he stupidly wrong is very much not self made up nor fake. As now I'm older I can controll it a lot better virus when I was 5. How ever I can 100% tell u it will never be gone.

[GeoffM]

I'm glad to see you made this thread. I thought if I made it it would be added
to the "unions suck, here's why" and the "american cars suck, here's why"
threads and I'd be banned. Now it's not my responsibility!

First of all, I want to make the basis for all of my thoughts on this matter clear:
Everyone should be able to live on their own. No help, no encouragement
needed. I believe anyone who "requires a crutch" needs it simply because of
their own imagined diseases/problems/etc.
People who fall into this category:
Drug users
Religious folk (<---- NOT going to elaborate)
Mentally handicapped

The list can go on, but I hope you get the idea.
Now, when I told this to my friends, they brought up the fact that some of
the mentally handicapped (didn't use that word), cannot help it. This seems
like a good point to make an exception to the rule. But it also makes it
difficult to explain them. Here goes:
If you're afflicted with a handicap that you were born with, and it effects
you both mentally and physically, then I'd classify that as genuine.
If you're afflicted with a handicap that requires a doctor to diagnose, or (like
the majority) you're doing it for attention, drugs, pity, etc, then, sorry to
say, but you're faking.
Stop it.
I understand that'll upset a lot of people, but I believe that if you can
control it least a little, then you can control it all the time.

Since we've established that most of the mental handicapped are faking it
for personal reasons (attention, drugs, pity, etc) then we can assume that
they're seeking something from everyone else. What? Not sure. But they'll
use those personal reasons to bring attention to "it".

Skipping religious folk, we're now up to drug users.
Million different reasons why they do it, but it all boils down to this:
They want to escape from their world. They want a release so they can get
away from their problems. To me, this is also a crutch. That means that drug
users are weak and unable to stand on their own.
Sure they could be doing it just for fun, but there's still an underlying reason
to it. Because of that, they fall into the same category as everyone else on
the list.

To sum up: Drug users, religious folk, and mentally handicapped people all
think they require a crutch. Because of that, they are worthless.

VisualPoet, on to your points:
1. Indeed
2. It seems to me that you'd just need to calm yourself down in those
moments. There's something there that's making you anxious, find out what
it is and squash it.
I've occasionally had moments where my heart has sped up and I felt worried
for little reason at all. I simply slowed my breathing and heart and it stopped.
3 and 4. Not exactly sure what you're saying. I am open to changing my
mind, that's part of the reason I put out the basis for my opinions. Now if
there's any glaring problems, somebody could show me what they are.
5. It felt much safer than the first time I fell, without a helmet.

1. Give me links. What I've come up with so far is simply from observing and
light research.
2. I tried to explain it above. Don't know if I did a very good job though.
Maybe a better way to say it is the imaginary folks can be "treated" with
meds.
3. Think of a 90 year old man, and how much sanity he has left. That's what
I was talking about.

[GeoffM]

Very real both my brother, my self and my two year old have all be diagnosed with a severe case of adhd. And I can tell geoff that not only is he stupidly wrong is very much not self made up nor fake. As now I'm older I can controll it a lot better virus when I was 5. How ever I can 100% tell u it will never be gone.

You are incredibly difficult to understand.
Maybe if you went back to school, paid attention, and learned something, you'd
see things from my point of view.

[texasvtak]

the real answer, because im never wrong, is that they are real, but they are overdiagnosed.

also, religion is only a crutch when used as such. might wanna keep that in mind.

[GeoffM]

the real answer, because im never wrong, is that they are real, but they are overdiagnosed.

That could be true to the point where I've never truly seen a case, and I've only seen people faking it.

Edit: I see you're editing too!
I don't want to discuss the religion aspect. PM me or add me on Facebook and we'll discuss it there.

[texasvtak]

so you were acutely aware of their brain chemistry at the time you diagnosed them as fakers?

[GeoffM]

so you were acutely aware of their brain chemistry at the time you diagnosed them as fakers?

I was acutely aware of them telling me "I can't wait to get this prescription, so I can go sell it"
That's not everyone I've met, but that's the particular group I'm thinking of right now.

[cbscandal]

You are incredibly difficult to understand.
Maybe if you went back to school, paid attention, and learned something, you'd
see things from my point of view.

You're not any better than anybody else.

[texasvtak]

I was acutely aware of them telling me "I can't wait to get this prescription, so I can go sell it"
That's not everyone I've met, but that's the particular group I'm thinking of right now.

thats just people taking advantage of the system. stop associating apples with oranges.

[sulimed]

I was acutely aware of them telling me "I can't wait to get this prescription, so I can go sell it"
That's not everyone I've met, but that's the particular group I'm thinking of right now.

so your making a broad generation cause of the tards you hang around?

[Ralphie]

Wow brotha.

Your argument is so far askewed i don't even know if it's worth it to discuss the topic with you.

How come these people are worthless?

Even if someone is faking being mentally handicapped to get meds from a doctor because they are a junkie, isn't that still someones father/mother/brother/sister??!?!

Im assuming you have never had a family member suffer from real issues.

If you had, you would have slightly more sympathy for people who are "unable to cope".

Now, i do realize some people do things for attention, or just because theyre idiots, but i feel the majority of people that are users, and especially people with mental defecits(autisim, down syndrome etc) have real issues and actually aren't that much different from anyone else with the exception of their ailment.

What about the junkie who turned to drugs after losing both parents in a car accident? Or their child to suicide?

Sometimes the human mind cannot deal with what is presented to it. It is no ones fault, and it doesn't mean any one person is better then the next.

I really feel that you should expand your views and leave Michigan. Take a trip, meet people, and learn about the "views" of people outside your comfort zone.

Im sure it is a lovely place, but you have very narrow views.

[Tnwagn]

If you're afflicted with a handicap that requires a doctor to diagnose, or (like
the majority) you're doing it for attention, drugs, pity, etc, then, sorry to
say, but you're faking.

Like Alzheimer's? What difference do you make between that, which everyone knows is a really disability, and ADD, which is also has just as much scientific research behind it?

Medical science has proven that there are mental disabilities. If you aren't willing to accept this fact then you might as well say that you're not going to eat food because there's not any scientific proof good enough to tell you you should.

I agree, there are many people that think they have mental issues and are misdiagnosed by medical professionals. However, there are real mental problems that people can develop over time.

Depression is real and if everyone of of your friends and family killed themselves I'd imagine you wouldn't go, "Well, serves 'em right for being weak."

[Ralphie]

Depression is real and if everyone of of your friends and family killed themselves I'd imagine you wouldn't go, "Well, serves 'em right for being weak."

I actually think he would.

He is so sure that he is superior and stubborn, that when faced with such a catostrophic event, he himself probably wouldn't be able to cope and would learn the hard way what real pain and suffering is.

[GhostAccord]

Plain and simple GeoffM, you need help! I now realize that your not a troll your a fucked up loner! Everyone should be able to live on their own.......so having a family with a sportive wife is considered a crutch in your circle? Your way of thinking about this subject is what I consider the same as how you view Religious folk and drug users. By the way not all drug users start off using drugs as an escape from something.

You are very narrow minded kid! Grow up and get a life before you try spewing your super human opinions on how they should be able to live theirs. Just another typical thread of yours..... I tend not to even read any threads you start, but I couldn't help but join in on this one..... lmfao at your views of life, or should I say, what little you have experienced.

*Edited becuase Geoff asked me to use spell check. I did and it didn't pick up Palin as being misspelled. Probably becuase it recognizes it as a proper name. Sorry I'm not super human like some Halosapian trolls.