almost 4.20!

[EJX_Michael]

Why? Can't refute it? That is the problem with real actual backed up science. It is hard to argue against. I didn't even type that much. I provided about 6 links.

I didn't actually say shit, my links all did it for me. Now, go make a convincing arguement that the AMA and APA are full of shit and don't know anything about anything. Good luck with that.

Nah, I'm just done giving a fuck.

I'm going to smoke my weed and enjoy the fuck out of it.

[King James]

Scott....I dont think anybody is saying weed is without side effects....I know all Ive been saying is in relation to the other drugs that are legal it is no way worse.....it isnt blow....it isnt heroin or meth...so why is it in the same class as them....does it have ill effects?....sure.....but I can tell you that I smoked often for 2 years before being recalled back to work....quit the day I got recalled and havent smoked since....I did feel the effects of the constant use....mainly a bit of memory loss and feeling a bit out of it at times....but after 2 months it was as if I never smoked....I know you are comparing long term smokers but the reality is if I drank or smoked cigarettes as much as I smoked weed over those 2 years the negative effects would be far worse than what I had to deal with....mainly I very much doubt I would have been able to give up either of those at the drop of a hat

I just dont necessarily agree that I can buy cheap booze and smokes at the duty free at the border and all I have to do is tell them how much I bought....but if I have a gram of weed on me I go to jail.

[toycar]

That is the problem with real actual backed up science.

The science you are referring to hasnt concluded anything. You tried to make that point later in this outrageous post here;

The FACT (right there in those links I have provided), is that the American Medical Association (made of doctors, for doctors, and by doctors, who do ACTUAL scientific research), has pretty clearly said that the medicinal benefits of MJ are not known conclusively. Therefore, they recommend further research

But yet you are trying to use the "science" to backup your story, nice try Hanzo.

BTW the AMA has shit to do with drugs being APPROVED for use on the market. Though some medicines may hit the counter prior to approval, MJ is not one of them. Actually, the FDA has across the board been saying that MJ is a viable form of treatment for several illnesses.

It is horribly inconvenient when reality strikes fantasy.

The same could be said for people that think they know everything.

instead of just attacking me because you don't like my links, you would learn a thing or two.

Pretty sure your entire post is a lame attempt at trying to insult my intellegience, nice try though.

The first thing you would learn (I know, reading comprehension is really hard these days) is that I didn't say a thing about whether or not you should do pot. That is simply a strawman you are constructing to make your arguement look like it has more merit.

So wait a second, you dont think that comming on so strong, and providing links is in some way trying to argue a point, more importantly YOUR point? If not then why provide the links, I mean you obviously at this point realize that no one believes what you are saying, so you need links to support your lost cause? Nice move! SO, lemme get this straight. You are arguing someone elses opinion, not yours?


Right.....

Go ahead, don't take my word for it, go ahead and do some actual research on the matter (the link is provided). That is not a ringing endorsement for pot. It is simply a "we don't know."

But apparently you know the truth right? I mean, thats what this is all about right, you proving to me that science is behind you. So, how is it that science says "we dont know"(per you) but you in fact do know. Whats up with that?

It has happened AT LEAST a dozen times in my life, so you will have to forgive me for not buying the "the government says it is OK, so it is" crap..

Right, so now you know better then the government. Gotcha, Ill take note of that for future reference.

Legalization is there simply so they can tax the shit out of it and make money on it. Simple as that. Just like tobacco and alcohol.

Actually, mr knows it all your wrong. Weed isnt illegal, its under prohibition. Meaning you are prohibited to have it in your possession without a tax stamp-I suggest you read up on that!

1) You apparently should spend as much time practicing comprehension, as you do smoking a blunt. You would probably experience a higher quality of life.

Seems to me that your reading comprehension is the one that needs a little updating.

3) Don't tell me what I should do. Had YOU actually gotten out there, YOU would learn that there is a lot more to life the illicit drugs. You accuse me of not living life, but I simply do it in a different way. First, I can get fired if I smoke anything, and I love what I do, so that isn't an option for me. Second, try something really awe inspiring sometime. Like racing a car, flying aerobatics, hiking to the top of a mountain where you can see hundreds of miles. To even INSINUATE that I don't know how to live life because I am not a druggie makes you look like a complete fucking tool.

I insuated that, because you are claiming to know everything that you apparently know nothing about. I agree, racing cars, flying planes, hiking-all aweseome things to do. Ive never flown a plane-sounds like a lot of fun/excitement. As far as racing cars goes, if you knew me personally you would retract that statement.

This is very typical and I am used to it. This is what are known as defense mechanisms. They ultimately know I am right (I didn't even say anything, the scientific community did), and they can't deal with their construct of reality being challenged, so they attack me personally.

Know your right, why? The only thing you have really provided to this debate is an attitude and the assumption that WE dont know what WE are talking about. You the one being a dick in this conversation, seems like everyone else is overwhelmed by your strong minded ideaology.

The premise behind this logical fallacy, is that if they attack me and make me look bad, then my arguement must not hold merit. The problem is that it has nothing to do with my arguement, and everything to do with trying to discredit me, so that they can justify their position against me in their own mind. The Ego is very predictable and easy to work with if you know what you look for.

Its funny, because I read this and it reminds me of everything you are trying to do to the community. Defensive, trying to discredit people, calling names, trying to undermine a discussion about holiday plans and rail road it with your sub-agenda. Youve done enough to discredit yourself, I dont need to do anything to help you with that.

Ultimately, guys like this can believe whatever they want. It isn't based on sound logic, reality, or facts.

I was going to say the same thing about your arguement. You havent done anything to prove yourself right, and the only thing you brought to the table claims "they dont really know"

Bahahahaahahahahahahaha, and all of this because people asked what your plans are for 4/20...

The really laughable part of his tantrum is that I said pretty repeatedly "not saying you should or shouldn't do it, just saying that there ARE sideeffects." I also said repeatedly "not saying it should or shouldn't be legalized."

No, the really funny part is you are trying so hard to prove a point but dont have the SACK to own the words you are portraying, and are also going to great lengths to try and deflect the notion that you also believe the stupid shit you link'd for us. BTW, did you not read that before posting it? It says very clearly, that if there are any effects they remain unknown at this point and further review is needed.

Now, being so fucking observant, i thought to myself;

Just because it didnt prove it was ok, it sure didnt have anything supporting the idea that it wasnt ok either.

Hows about that buddy? What do you say to that? Science cannot confirm your claims. They cannot. And the fact is, its becoming legal more and more every day. State by state it is passing, and I bet theres plenty of "know it alls" just like you that are fighting tooth and nail to try and stop it based on stupid miss-information you were raised on. Fact of the matter is, science is leaning against what you are saying more and more daily.

The discussion is about whether or not there are measurable side effects to MJ use, and like it or not, there are.

Like it or not, you took the conversation there. This thread was about plans on 4/20. And, now that nobody agrees with you, you are acting like a 5 yr old.

If you think I am wrong, and MJ has absolutely no downsides, then why don't you start providing the material to prove me wrong? Let's actually learn instead of just hurling insults and stupidity around, shall we?

I do think your wrong, and the "science" you provided doesnt exactly say your right. Actually, the best you've been able to do is provide a link, to a site, that says they need to look into it better.

You are the very epitome of close minded, considering that all you can do is hurl insults and attack me.

I didn't even make the statements you claim, so I wonder where you get off claiming I did. If you can't have an intelligent adult discussion, without insinuating, putting words in my mouth and resorting to personal attack, then you can go on a vacation until you change your mind. If you want to discuss fine. If all you can do is have a hissy fit and make personal attacks like a 3 year old, that is fine too.

Seems like you are the one with your panties in a bunch. I stand by what I said. Called names, I suppose. Your acting like a MR. KNow it all. You dont know it all, not even close.

[deevergote]

Disregarding most of the current arguments for the sake of time... I will only comment on 2 things.

Scott, I mentioned my training and interest in psychology merely to qualify my statements. I have an education that puts me in a position to make such assumptions without my words being thoroughly discredited as total shots in the dark.

As I said, deviant behavior breeds subculture. The whole "holiday" thing is a part of that subculture. If marijuana was something that would be associated with 'everyday life' and not something that 'only certain types of people do', then there would very likely be less of a subculture formed around the act.

People have compared St Patrick's day to 4/20... but in reality, St Patty's day is a legitimate holiday, with traditions and more meanings behind it than "get drunk". Restaurants, alcohol companies, bars, etc... have made it about drinking. Still, non-drinkers can still wear green, eat corned beef and cabbage, and recognize the saint that the day is commemorating.
4/20 is just "smoke pot day".

Remove the deviant connotations, and the subculture surrounding it will subside.

[Gemini]

this is one of the best discussions/debates ive read on this forum

[LadyG]

What you would prefer is totally irrelevant to the discussion, as is the origin of the laws.

I never said anything about the origins of the law, or whether they were good or not.

I really do get a kick out of dicussions like this, where you guys can never have an actual discussion on the topic, because you don't have a leg to stand on. Why don't we try sticking to the actual topic, rather than resorting to presumption, assumption, personal attack, and logical fallacies?

ACTUALLY several people on earlier pages were talking about how weed is illegal. I put in my two cents, as it is not common knowledge how it got that way. You are not discussing anything; YOU are ranting to a room full of people who were having a polite conversation until you and your inflated sense of self took all the air out of the room.

I have the right to my preferences and opinions, just as you CLEARLY use your right to yours.

YOU are "off topic" in this thread.

and as to a red herring, wasn't he always Fred's fall guy in the "Pup named Scooby Doo" cartoon???


EDIT: and the origin of marijuana laws IS relevant. It provides a constitutional basis for either completely revising the laws as they stand now, or eliminating them altogether.

[GeoffM]

this is one of the best discussions/debates ive read on this forum

x2

owequitit, where were you when my "american cars suck, here's why" thread was up?

[deevergote]

x2

owequitit, where were you when my "american cars suck, here's why" thread was up?

Probably wisely keeping out of it to prevent himself and a half dozen others from getting banned.

[GeoffM]

Probably wisely keeping out of it to prevent himself and a half dozen others from getting banned.

I think the best thing would be for that thread to be restored so we can see what'll happen.

[texasvtak]

However, for people to say that it has no affect on their lifestyle, and then post threads about it a month before a holiday, smoke it all the time, etc, is pretty telling that it plays a larger role in their life than they want to admit. Personally, I don't depend on any substances, and much prefer to activate my pleasure receptors the old fashioned way, but that doesn't necessarily mean I am blind or biased. People can attack me all they want. Until the attack the science, they are going to get nowhere.

people say it has no effect on their lifestyle because their lifestyle includes smoking.* youre being kind of dick in here. just sayin. no one tried to say it was healthy with zero side effects til you stormed in here.

*i can safely say drinking doesnt affect my lifestyle, while at the same time going out for drinks every once in a while. to be a significant problem, a substance has to have significant negative effects. youre clearly implying that weed is a bad thing. its not the big bad monster every super conservative geezer still living in the 50s makes it out to be, but like i just said, no ones saying its harmless. youre arguing against a point that we never made. quit that shit.

[92turboaccord]

4/20....i dont smoke so i was thinking this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler

[GeoffM]

I used to think it was people celebrating Columbine.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbi...chool_massacre

[owequitit]

The science you are referring to hasnt concluded anything. You tried to make that point later in this outrageous post here;



But yet you are trying to use the "science" to backup your story, nice try Hanzo.

BTW the AMA has shit to do with drugs being APPROVED for use on the market. Though some medicines may hit the counter prior to approval, MJ is not one of them. Actually, the FDA has across the board been saying that MJ is a viable form of treatment for several illnesses.





The same could be said for people that think they know everything.




Pretty sure your entire post is a lame attempt at trying to insult my intellegience, nice try though.



So wait a second, you dont think that comming on so strong, and providing links is in some way trying to argue a point, more importantly YOUR point? If not then why provide the links, I mean you obviously at this point realize that no one believes what you are saying, so you need links to support your lost cause? Nice move! SO, lemme get this straight. You are arguing someone elses opinion, not yours?


Right.....



But apparently you know the truth right? I mean, thats what this is all about right, you proving to me that science is behind you. So, how is it that science says "we dont know"(per you) but you in fact do know. Whats up with that?




Right, so now you know better then the government. Gotcha, Ill take note of that for future reference.



Actually, mr knows it all your wrong. Weed isnt illegal, its under prohibition. Meaning you are prohibited to have it in your possession without a tax stamp-I suggest you read up on that!

Seems to me that your reading comprehension is the one that needs a little updating.


I insuated that, because you are claiming to know everything that you apparently know nothing about. I agree, racing cars, flying planes, hiking-all aweseome things to do. Ive never flown a plane-sounds like a lot of fun/excitement. As far as racing cars goes, if you knew me personally you would retract that statement.




Know your right, why? The only thing you have really provided to this debate is an attitude and the assumption that WE dont know what WE are talking about. You the one being a dick in this conversation, seems like everyone else is overwhelmed by your strong minded ideaology.



Its funny, because I read this and it reminds me of everything you are trying to do to the community. Defensive, trying to discredit people, calling names, trying to undermine a discussion about holiday plans and rail road it with your sub-agenda. Youve done enough to discredit yourself, I dont need to do anything to help you with that.




I was going to say the same thing about your arguement. You havent done anything to prove yourself right, and the only thing you brought to the table claims "they dont really know"

Bahahahaahahahahahahaha, and all of this because people asked what your plans are for 4/20...



No, the really funny part is you are trying so hard to prove a point but dont have the SACK to own the words you are portraying, and are also going to great lengths to try and deflect the notion that you also believe the stupid shit you link'd for us. BTW, did you not read that before posting it? It says very clearly, that if there are any effects they remain unknown at this point and further review is needed.

Now, being so fucking observant, i thought to myself;

Just because it didnt prove it was ok, it sure didnt have anything supporting the idea that it wasnt ok either.

Hows about that buddy? What do you say to that? Science cannot confirm your claims. They cannot. And the fact is, its becoming legal more and more every day. State by state it is passing, and I bet theres plenty of "know it alls" just like you that are fighting tooth and nail to try and stop it based on stupid miss-information you were raised on. Fact of the matter is, science is leaning against what you are saying more and more daily.






Like it or not, you took the conversation there. This thread was about plans on 4/20. And, now that nobody agrees with you, you are acting like a 5 yr old.




I do think your wrong, and the "science" you provided doesnt exactly say your right. Actually, the best you've been able to do is provide a link, to a site, that says they need to look into it better.






Seems like you are the one with your panties in a bunch. I stand by what I said. Called names, I suppose. Your acting like a MR. KNow it all. You dont know it all, not even close.

You know, its funny. Its funny that the only one flying off the handle and saying stupid stuff in here is you.

It is funny how you still can't get passed the personal attacks and actually confront the arguement with a credible rebuttal of your own. Not really too surprising though. Let me know if you want to discuss like an adult, and not a child. Then maybe we will re-engage.

The really funny part is that you are attacking me for something I didn't even baselessly claim. I simply provided evidence for the arguement (from a reputable source of people who would actually know), and here you are attacking me.

Lol at you.

P.S. I didn't read a word you said, because there is no point in reading beyond the first personal insult.

Disregarding most of the current arguments for the sake of time... I will only comment on 2 things.

Scott, I mentioned my training and interest in psychology merely to qualify my statements. I have an education that puts me in a position to make such assumptions without my words being thoroughly discredited as total shots in the dark.

As I said, deviant behavior breeds subculture. The whole "holiday" thing is a part of that subculture. If marijuana was something that would be associated with 'everyday life' and not something that 'only certain types of people do', then there would very likely be less of a subculture formed around the act.

People have compared St Patrick's day to 4/20... but in reality, St Patty's day is a legitimate holiday, with traditions and more meanings behind it than "get drunk". Restaurants, alcohol companies, bars, etc... have made it about drinking. Still, non-drinkers can still wear green, eat corned beef and cabbage, and recognize the saint that the day is commemorating.
4/20 is just "smoke pot day".

Remove the deviant connotations, and the subculture surrounding it will subside.

I understand what you are saying. However, I know several psychologists who disagree about what constitutes "addictive behavior." One of the downsides to a social science. They are "clear as mud." It wasn't an attack on you, it was simply a counter point.

A counterpoint ironically, that I didn't even personally make.

people say it has no effect on their lifestyle because their lifestyle includes smoking.* youre being kind of dick in here. just sayin. no one tried to say it was healthy with zero side effects til you stormed in here.

*i can safely say drinking doesnt affect my lifestyle, while at the same time going out for drinks every once in a while. to be a significant problem, a substance has to have significant negative effects. youre clearly implying that weed is a bad thing. its not the big bad monster every super conservative geezer still living in the 50s makes it out to be, but like i just said, no ones saying its harmless. youre arguing against a point that we never made. quit that shit.

1) I haven't said anything other than there are side effects. If you haven't gotten the message that some in this thread believe there are NONE, then you haven't read the thread. I was merely providing a counterpoint to the incorrect assertions that it has no side effects. I supported that with actual science studies. I didn't say shit personally.

The fact is that MJ has specific and measurable side effects related to its use. If it didn't, what is the point in using it?

I didn't say it was wrong, I didn't say it was worse than alcohol, I didn't even say it should be illegal. That is ALL assumption on the part of you and every other person attacking me, because you automatically assume that because I didn't say it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, I think it is bad. The truth is that I don't give a fuck if people use it, I was simply reminding them that it DOES affect you.

Alcohol has side effects too. That is why people drink it. I sure as hell know that when I drink something, it is affecting me in negative ways. Doesn't mean I don't do it, or don't enjoy it. It simply means I am not dillusional about side effects. Nothing more.

Don't assume that because I think it has side effects that I am some 50's conservative school marm that is blinded by ideology.

[toycar]

So mr quite it, hows about we just get back on topic and agree that there ARE side effects.

Would that satisfy you?


Just a thought;


If there werent side effects, why would people do it? I enjoy(d) relaxing when I used to smoke. I smoked for a long time. Sure, it was harder to get out of bed sometimes, and maybe I did eat enough captain crunch to be considered a partner-whatever. It also helped me deal with stress, relax on demand and just plain enjoy some quality time. I loved getting baked and working in the garden. That right there, is bliss.

Im fit, healthy, happy and reliable. Clean for quite sometime, and even when I did smoke I was as reliable as i am now. I operated my contracting company(sober while working) and still smoked at night. I bid jobs, dealt with the public, paid employees, taxes, insurance, pulled permits etc... for hundreds of jobs-ON TOP OF MY 40 HOUR WORK WEEK AS HEAD LOAN OFFICER OF A MAJOR NATION WIDE BANK.

Never missed a beat. Just because I never missed my bong, doesnt somehow mean people/work werent just as important. Its just weed.


Im in a good financial position, considered to be "successful" in most peoples eyes, certainly my own. I could list off the things I have to brag about, but the fact of the matter is you some how feel like you are in a position to judge peoples quality of living because they smoke pot.


I completely, witht the utmost respect, think you dont know what you are talking about on this matter. Until you've been a stoner, and gone to work at a career, and functioned as an adult, you would only have the opinion that you do. I bet the majority of people, with limited knowledge of MJ feel the same way.

Quality of life has shit to do with smoking weed. Quality of life has everything to do with being responsible and knowing how to make a good decision.

What if I said I have a FLEET of cars, not just one or two. What if I told you I owned 3 racecars, not just 1 project car. Ive climbed plenty of mountains in my life, MT hood to be the one worth bragging about. Ive sky dived, bungy jumped, base jumped, para sailed, hang glided, and I went to the dells in Wisconsin and did lots of stupid fun exciting things there.

And what if at the end of all of that I said,"Everything I have asides from the Dodge Ram, the Maxima and the CB7-I purchased before I got married, which was before I quite smoking pot."

Would you feel any different? Because thats the truth right there man. I succeeded, prior to quitting smoking and my quality of life wasnt the #1 quality of life in America, but it wasnt certainly better then alot of others.

I do good, but PLENTY of people do better.

[Bongo]

......damn lol. Nothin planned, just working, then prob hangin out at home with a blunt.