Unions Suck, here's why:

[GeoffM]

The sequel to my "american cars suck, here's why" thread!

Unions are a lot like communism. Good in theory, but poorly implemented.
For example: Unions DID start and help achieve important things, like weekends, and minimum wage.
For those who are a part of a union, good for you! I'm sure it's working out well. A nice big safety net and lots of sick days!
The Bad:
1. In addition to other things, raising minimum wage also raises inflation. That makes everything cost more.
2. Unions protect their own. This can be good and bad. Usually it's bad and will assist in bringing down a company. Ie an employee makes a mistake and the company gets sued. Fire the employee right? Nope! Unions are protecting that dude. Look at point 6 for more.
3. Pension. Nice if you have it coming to you. Other then that it's a dumb idea. Hey! I know! You quit working here 30 years ago, but here's x amount of money with a 3% raise each year. What a great idea!
4. Unions stifle business (raising costs, points 2,3, and 9)
5. They allow scumbags like my step dad to survive. (Not interested in discussing this)
6. I often hear stories like this: I know a friend who wasn't allowed to pick something up and carry it from one part of the warehouse to another because it was the job of a union employee. <----- The person who was supposed to be moving that box is usually high or drunk.
7. Unions, as a whole, are no longer needed. Back in the 1900's when sweatshops were around? Sure. Now we have laws in this country that won't allow the owners to take advantage of the workers, but none that keep the workers from taking advantage of the owners. Isn't that kind of backwards?
8. This goes for any special interest groups, but no one should be allowed to lobby congress. I know this is a whole other melting pot, but congress should be free to make their own decisions.
9. Unions are the major reason that the American manufacturers moved out of America and continue to do so. Unions are famous for all of the reasons stated by the first answerer and in addition, work slowdowns, violent strikes, doing destructive activities, collecting dues to protect workers then not giving the money back when a plant shuts down, i e , keeping the dues money for themselves, and a host of other bad things.
10. The manufacturers that are left (think big 3) are only now starting to make a decent product. Point 6 was common place for a good 30 years, and still occurs today. Unions are a MAJOR reason american cars suck. UAW ftw! <--- Sarcasm

Sources: Multiple
Common knowledge
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...4165744AA2WB5y
http://ugleenakedguy.blogspot.com/20...-bad-idea.html

Mods, if you delete this, please send it to me. Thanks

[crazymikey]

Unions are both good and bad, it all depends how they work for you.

Many cases, they can save your ass. I've never been part of a union, until now, working for the railway, I will become a union member. I've got about $100/mo in union dues now. I haven't had an orientation about the union yet, but that's coming up soon, so I don't have much info on how they work for us.

[life_shift]

i worked for UPS for a while, the only thing bad i saw with that union job was paying union dues. Other than that, most people were happy and content with what they made and the benefits they received were outstanding. However most jobs within the company were secured because of the union. I don't think they are bad within themselves and I disagree that the union is driving the companies out of the country. I do however believe that because our economy sucks companies are taking into consideration themselves and make the wise decision to hire cheaper labor to continue to make a profit. Yes, its a cold and shady move to our eyes but they are just trying to save themselves and make a profit. As for now we gotta suck it up and live with the jobs we have and make the best of what we have been given.

[19dabeast85]

Unions are both good and bad, it all depends how they work for you.

Many cases, they can save your ass. I've never been part of a union, until now, working for the railway, I will become a union member. I've got about $100/mo in union dues now. I haven't had an orientation about the union yet, but that's coming up soon, so I don't have much info on how they work for us.

You are paying $100 per month to be part of a union? What's the benefit? Is it more than taking the $100 per month and investing at 6% ? I'm just curious what all they do for you because I haven't research union much at all.

[crazymikey]

My dad works for Chrysler as a truck driver at the Brampton plant.

He was involved in a loading dock accident, where the crew didn't follow proper procedure with the dock signals and signing paperwork. They gave him a green signal too early, before the forklift was finished unloading, and they brought him his paperwork before the job was done.

He signed off on the paperwork, which clears you to leave. He saw the green signal, and started to pull away as the forklift was backing off the trailer. The forklift fell off the trailer between the dock and trailer and landed on the ground, slightly injuring the driver.

An investigation began and my dad was suspended with pay while they investgated the accident. Because a verdict took 4 weeks, they had no choice but to keep him, as the union states that there is a 2 week maximum for an investgation to reach a verdict. They wanted to terminate my dad for the accident, but the union said the company couldn't because of the 2 week rule. So, in his defense, the union saved his ass. He would have also been wrongfully terminated, as the accident was not his fault. It was the loading dock crew not following procedure, which caused the chain of events.

[crazymikey]

You are paying $100 per month to be part of a union? What's the benefit? Is it more than taking the $100 per month and investing at 6% ? I'm just curious what all they do for you because I haven't research union much at all.

Like I said, I have not been to the orientation yet. That will be sometime in April after I come back from 4 weeks of On Job Training.

[DJ metadelic]

Unions are "bad" in the case of people who wish to *not* be members and still have to pay in dues.

Otherwise I disagree.

[Dirtyrice]

I think it all depends on which side of the fence you're in. If you guys get a chance watch "Waiting for Superman," its a great film showing how teachers unions are fucking up the education system in this nation.

[h22sparkle]

Well from my experience working with other companies like Ups and such and other government agencies is that each union is different. You have other that are good and others that are not so good.

If you feel that they arent in good standing in enforcing on what they agreed on the contract par the collective bargaining argreement then get em out.

You have to allow them to serve their term then leave once the contract is up. You also have to see it form their point of view they have to help the people who they are collecting money off of.

If they do not to right by the employees and have listened to their side with the story then try to make sure they get the full benefits that their job can offer then guess what get them out of their or seek employment elsewhere.

Most jobs seek to get the unions out so that they can take advantage of the employee's. Most unions are on their way out since the whole crackdown on the mafia and crime-bosses like Gotti etc.

Most of them are under the table and just want your money. A majority of the time depending on who is your business agent, they cannot be reached unless they know your on their ass like a heat seeking missle,when they are out of chaff.

So it pays to be persistant in cases like if you are not being payed your total hours on the bargaining agreement. When they service you up the contract before you talk to the union talk to the person who is responsible first before you make a move on the company.

But let the union be aware of what you are about to do that way they are in the know to a certain degree. Because once companies know your onto them they will try to do little shit to build a case on you and get you out aswell.

So if you make a move let the company know hey you know my check says different than what I am supposed to recieve. If they want to try and shun you document and date everything that they said.

If they are trying to hold you off on little shit here and there to try and block you, thats when you take it a step further. Type up a letter and leave it there for them to please contact you back and discuss whatever you have to discuss with them in person. If they avoid the letters and still try send a letter with confirmation that it has been delivered.

[h22sparkle]

My dad works for Chrysler as a truck driver at the Brampton plant.

He was involved in a loading dock accident, where the crew didn't follow proper procedure with the dock signals and signing paperwork. They gave him a green signal too early, before the forklift was finished unloading, and they brought him his paperwork before the job was done.

He signed off on the paperwork, which clears you to leave. He saw the green signal, and started to pull away as the forklift was backing off the trailer. The forklift fell off the trailer between the dock and trailer and landed on the ground, slightly injuring the driver.

An investigation began and my dad was suspended with pay while they investgated the accident. Because a verdict took 4 weeks, they had no choice but to keep him, as the union states that there is a 2 week maximum for an investgation to reach a verdict. They wanted to terminate my dad for the accident, but the union said the company couldn't because of the 2 week rule. So, in his defense, the union saved his ass. He would have also been wrongfully terminated, as the accident was not his fault. It was the loading dock crew not following procedure, which caused the chain of events.

Well with OSHA wasn't it your fathers and the drivers responsibility to make sure that the truck has airbrakes are in service mode, and that the wheels are properly chocked before entering the truck?

So its not his fault either. If they didnt have any chocks your not supposed to enter the truck. If the company didnt have any then it would be on the companies ass which is should be too.

[kelton]

I have no problem with my union. They pay for my schooling and keep my benefits. Help me get into a higher grade job and everything else. Like people said. I think its mostly which union you have.

[King James]

6. I often hear stories like this: I know a friend who wasn't allowed to pick something up and carry it from one part of the warehouse to another because it was the job of a union employee. <----- The person who was supposed to be moving that box is usually high or drunk.

No union will be able to protect an employee if they come to work drunk or high.

Im part of a union....If I fuck up at work the company will piss test/breathalize me....if I fail either its bye bye job....Ive seen numerous co-workers get fired because they had weed in their system from 2 weeks previous.

Im not gonna dignify the rest of your garbage with a response as I know your only trying to get a reaction from the people on this forum.....Its getting tiresome and I really hope something is done about your idiocy before long.

Its one thing to post a topic because you actually want to have a discussion about it.....Its completely another to talk out of your ass just to see what people will say.

[deevergote]

King James has the right idea... if you have limited facts, your opinions are really just laughable. They are also not really worth creating a division in an otherwise cohesive communuty.

The ONLY thing I agree with is your initial statement comparing unions to comunism. Great theory, but bad when abused. That goes for just about anything, though.
It is true that when a union situation is abused, workers can be overcompensated for far too little work (that was a big gripe about the US automotive industry... production workers were making LOTS of money, and doing far too little work, producing sub-par products.) Unions, like the US legal system, can be abused to defend people in situations that would otherwise warrant termination.

Crazymikey's story about his father shows the value of a union. However, that same situation could have played out where it WAS his father's fault, and he could have escaped all repercussions of it by simply playing the system to his advantage.




Do unions suck? No. Do people that use such things to an unfair advantage suck? Yes. There is a difference.
The difference between unions and a comunist government are that the unions are not an absolute power. A union can go on strike, and there can be workers put in place to perform their jobs.

[stewie]

No union will be able to protect an employee if they come to work drunk or high.

like others have said, it depends on how strong your union is.

mine for example is extremely strong, if we come to work drunk/high, they can not fire you, they must offer you help...aka...you get a free vacation to rehab...

as long as im able to say "i have an alcohol problem" or "i have a drug addiction problem" before they can give me a termination letter....they cannot fire me.

i can see smaller unions not doing so well..but bigger ones are stronger and will let you get away with waaaaaay more shit.

[King James]

I'm a teamster...so a strong union...and I do agree to an extent...and I guess it depends what job you do

For me, as a conductor, it's now a law if I show up to work high or drunk I get criminally charged with DUI...and if I get a DUI I loose my certification as a conductor (Im told anyways)....before you could easily get away with doin what you said...but it's becoming increasingly difficult to use that as an excuse to get away with it...for me anyways

But to that point...I've worked jobs with no union where people use that as an excuse to keep their job...I think it's more to do with legislation than a union allowing that to be acceptable