jdm92_accorn : 1992 Accord LX

[P5ylance]

Thank you so much Accorn for your contributions, especially your specs for the Web regrind. I can't say thank you enough for sharing what you have shared with us, it's amazing. with my new career job underway, as soon as I get settled with my budgeting I'm down to dive right back into the accord!

I have 3 A6 runners and 3 h23 plenums, so I'm gonna try gutting one of them down to the runners and opening up the plenum. how did the AP1AP2 plenum spacer work out, did it melt at all? I'm looking into picking one of those up to gut and match to the modified setup.

[jdm92_accorn]

No problem with the spacers at all. Once I get some things squared away im going to start looking at itbs again.

[Chrisnick]

Where did you buy your rockers from? Honda?

Also, first post outside the 'beginner' section, woohoo! Been following/on the board for some time now, really love the testing you've done.

[CB7Denmark]

You made a better "bisi" cam.. Dude this mean, you're the new BISI Joke aside, thank you for your contribution, that is a huge amount of time you invested there.

Interesting, i've been thinking for a while about getting a different cam, ive started to give in to all the stupid rumors about bisi cams being off spec and what not, i dont have the tools to make precise measurements, i may have to check up if there even exist anyone here in my country that does that kind of work, it wouldn't surprise me if there werent.

[jdm92_accorn]

I bought the rockers from my local dealer. I'm not the new bisi, lol. I work hard and spend a lot of money learning and teaching and that is what I enjoy about the cb. I can honestly say that this car has taught me most of what I know now. I actually take pride in sharing what I learn so that people don't have to waste money on something that doesn't work and the only thing they learn is disappointment. I really want to get my hands on a set of itbs next to really see if a street f-series can make power with itb's on low compression and nothing for a cam, lol.

[Lucien]

I bought the rockers from my local dealer. I'm not the new bisi, lol. I work hard and spend a lot of money learning and teaching and that is what I enjoy about the cb. I can honestly say that this car has taught me most of what I know now. I actually take pride in sharing what I learn so that people don't have to waste money on something that doesn't work and the only thing they learn is disappointment. I really want to get my hands on a set of itbs next to really see if a street f-series can make power with itb's on low compression and nothing for a cam, lol.

Hell yeah, itb's!

Have you considered building a f-series going purely for high torque? It'd be cool to have a torque focused engine built using your same strategy of keeping things simple and using optimal oem parts for the goal.

[jdm92_accorn]

Torque is very important but gearing is more important. I have no real interest in building a full torque oriented engine. If you want torque for the feel change gearing or do weight reduction. You can only harness so much torque in a fwd before having issues anyway. If you want a fast f-series that pushes you into the seat and accelerates well, build it for decent rpms and a very broad power band, then gear it according to the needs of the engine. Look at how broad my f23's power band is and gear changes from 2-3, 3-4, and even 4-5. My gearing puts it right into its powerband minus 1-2. If I could get a lsd and a taller 1st gear in this thing it'd be crazy. If I went from the stock 3.307 1st to a 2.786 it put it landing at 4900rpm vs 4000rpm at the beginning of 2nd. That's a difference of about 43whp at the beginning of second gear. That translates into better acceleration, more push, faster lap times and trap times.

[Lucien]

Torque is very important but gearing is more important. I have no real interest in building a full torque oriented engine. If you want torque for the feel change gearing or do weight reduction. You can only harness so much torque in a fwd before having issues anyway. If you want a fast f-series that pushes you into the seat and accelerates well, build it for decent rpms and a very broad power band, then gear it according to the needs of the engine. Look at how broad my f23's power band is and gear changes from 2-3, 3-4, and even 4-5. My gearing puts it right into its powerband minus 1-2. If I could get a lsd and a taller 1st gear in this thing it'd be crazy. If I went from the stock 3.307 1st to a 2.786 it put it landing at 4900rpm vs 4000rpm at the beginning of 2nd. That's a difference of about 43whp at the beginning of second gear. That translates into better acceleration, more push, faster lap times and trap times.

Ah, ok. Ok. I wasn't taking gearing into consideration when i asked.

So what's you favorite trans so far that you've used on your F builds?

[jdm92_accorn]

the M2S4 is a good cheap trans upgrade over a stock accord and its all i've used. ideally you want the T2W4 due to it's closer ratios, larger carbon lined synchros and factory helical limited slip. my next trans will be a M2 case with my own set of ratios.

[P5ylance]

hey accorn, i had a thought:

do you think the p12 could handle the bisi stg 2 or a6 camshaft at all? its supposedly more aggressively tuned, but im trying to research in what way... the p12 never had iab support, so my main interest was if
it could handle a gutted h23/a6 intake manifold, since it wont have to control iab, and be a viable ecu again under different circumstances.

just some questions that some people may not have considered, since everyone moves past the p12 for a6 components at least.

[Lucien]

the M2S4 is a good cheap trans upgrade over a stock accord and its all i've used. ideally you want the T2W4 due to it's closer ratios, larger carbon lined synchros and factory helical limited slip. my next trans will be a M2 case with my own set of ratios.

Ah. Right on. I'll be looking for either of those, then. Need to replace clutch/pp/flywheel anyway, might as well swap to a better transmission. lol

[jdm92_accorn]

An a6 cam on a p12 ecu is the limit. Without tuning the level 2 bisi cam isn t that impressive anyways. It likes a lot of timing.

[sonikaccord]

*raises hand*
How much torque would it take for the front wheels to become completely useless, or how much till the wheels just spin with no hope of traction? This is torque to the wheels so I need the multiplication factor of the gearbox.

With 250ft-lbs, 1st gear and final on the stock EX 5-speed, I get roughly 3500ft-lbs to the wheels. I would expect not much more than 4000ft-lbs before tires start crying.

[Chrisnick]

*raises hand*
How much torque would it take for the front wheels to become completely useless, or how much till the wheels just spin with no hope of traction? This is torque to the wheels so I need the multiplication factor of the gearbox.

With 250ft-lbs, 1st gear and final on the stock EX 5-speed, I get roughly 3500ft-lbs to the wheels. I would expect not much more than 4000ft-lbs before tires start crying.

A LOT depends on tire compound and construction, as well as heat. Too many factors there. I'm not surprised how easily the OP can spin Kumho 4X's.... this car is screaming for a better suited tire. Considering it doesn't get much use outside of straight line and fun road driving, I'd find something that's the 'hottest' ST* class tire(200tw, sticky compound, quick to heat) with a reasonably 'soft' sidewall. Even something like the Continental DW would be a great tire, but would require a step up to 16's. In the 15" size... it's kind of tough without going too short of an overall diameter, while still finding something with a reasonably wide contact patch.

Something like the R888 in a 225/50/15 would be a nice compromise, even though it'd take a little bit more heat to get to 'work' than the ST* tires. They're a pretty soft sidewall(relatively speaking to other R-compound tires), fairly well priced, and keep a nice overall diameter. These are NOT a drag tire though, although I think a pretty ideal compromise. Check out this thread for sidewall "push" on the R888.

The R1R in a 225/45/15 would have about the same sidewall stiffness, a quicker heating compound(although would fall off much quicker after repeated use), but are a little "short" IMO.

Budget? BFG G-Force Sport Comp-2's all day long. Smaller size rating, but these are a VERY wide 195, wider than most 205's and 215's. Very grippy, very inexpensive, and work VERY well in every situation(aside from snow) that I've thrown at them. I run them in a 225/50/16 size and they absolutely DWARFED the 205/50/16 Dunlop Z1 Star Specs I had on my car previously. In a straight line and around town, they definitely had more grip(although I'm comparing a new BFG to a pretty worn out Z1SS). Autocross, they had about the same amount of grip, but weren't nearly as "sharp," which I largely contribute to the overstuffing of a WIDE 225 tire on a 7" wheel- I do NOT recommend going larger than a 205 on a 7" wheel because of my testing. I would've been much happier with a 205/55 or 205/50 90% of the time on this width of a wheel. Except in looks. Thing looks straight beef with these tires, I love it.

It should be noted that as sidewall stiffness becomes stiffer, and tread compound becomes stickier, the extra width of a tire will overcome the "pinching" effect of a tire larger than the wheel it's been mounted on and will ultimately lead to greater grip. Best example was the 275 Hoosiers stuffed onto the fronts of nearly all the fastest DS Integra Type-R's in SCCA autocross. I can't imagine it'd 'feel' great though. Narrower is typically better in transitional heavy courses, wider is better on higher speed, longer sweepers.


I look at tires more than almost anything else when it comes to a car.

[P5ylance]

would the bisi cam, although was intended for NA, be okay to use in a turbo application as well?