Rilas : 1993 Accord SE

[sonikaccord]

And people think that Honda's have no torque...it's time to shut them up.

[Rilas]

Those runners look great! SBS Performance always does really good work.

I didn't know about them until I received this manifold but it sure if beautiful. Elvis know's how to do some good work for sure!

And people think that Honda's have no torque...it's time to shut them up.

So true, although I think Gary already proved the point that Honda's can make some torque. I'm just trying to expand off of what he has provided to our community. If I could get over 200 ft/lb of torque I'd be one hell of a happy man.

[Rilas]

Alright guys, so I've been doing a lot of reading on all of the obstacles that I'm going to run into putting the full F23A1 into the car. I think I've already come up with solutions to the majority of my problems. The biggest being the fuel rail. As it's not compatible with the F22B1 rail it's pretty much a one off. I'm going to buy this to see if it will work.

I've also been doing some math, which I borrowed from Gary's MRT page.

VE= volumetric efficiency (95 for most street hondas)
DL= displacement in liters
DC3= displacement in cc
PTR= peak torque rpm
SQRT= square root
^(2)= squared= the number times itself

(Intake Plenum Size)= .6-1.3 x (DL) on n/a and 1.5-2 x (DL) on turbo. larger plenums offer more hp and torque potential but smaller offers better response. its your preference.
(Ideal Total Runner Length)= (84,000)/(PTR)
(Ideal Runner Diameter in mm)= ((SQRT [((PTR)x(DL)x(VE))/3330])x.1) x (25.4)
(Ideal Throttle Body Size in mm)= (SQRT [ ((154.2)x(# of cyl)x(stroke in inches)x(redline rpm)x((bore in inches)^(2))/67,547])x1.15
(Ideal Intake Tube Diameter)= 1.15 x throttle body size

F23 Build
Peak Torque: 5000rpm (Up for change as I don't know the cam specs currently.)
Redline: 7500rpm
Bore: 87mm or 3.425"
Stroke: 97mm or 3.818"
Cylinders: 4
Displacement: 2306cc
Aspiration: Natural

My Ideal Plenum is: .6 x 2.306 = 1.3836L - 2.9978L (Unsure of what my ported ones current volume is)
My Ideal Runner Length is: 84,000/5000 = 16.8" (Ported intake manifold runners are 8.5" while the cylinder head is another 3.25" resulting in a total of 11.75" runner length.)
My Ideal Runner Diameter is: ((SQRT [((5000)x(2.3)x(95))/3300])x.1) x (25.4) = 46.2mm (Haven't measured my current runners.)
My Ideal Throttle Body is: (SQRT [((154.2)x(4)x(3.818)x(7500)x((3.425)^(2))/67547])x1.15 = 63.69mm (Hoping I can find a J series TB that is 64-65mm. For reference the stock F23A TB is 55mm, while a J32A2 TB is 65mm. The J series TB slides right onto the F series plenum and looks like it should work just fine with a block off plate or two.)
my ideal intake tube diameter is: 1.15 x 63.69 = 73.24mm or 2.883" = AEM V2 at 3".

I'm still working on getting some cam specs to make a decision on that. Also a few other things I was worried about I found answers to last night. I've been trying to find upgraded valve springs for the F23A1 without much luck. The same thing with over sized valves. Well Bisimoto offers both. While I don't really trust Bisimoto with cam regrinds at all anymore, I think I'll be safe with the springs and the over sized stainless steel valves. Now that those things are covered, I think I'm just down to the cash to actually be able to put all this together.

I haven't really worked on anything related to Lola for a week or two now. Although I did manage to remove the decal on the back for Jon Henry Auto Sales, so the trunk looks much cleaner now. I've mainly been working on cleaning up the engine that is going to go back into old Lola. I think I'm about 80% done with this now. I'm getting ready to take the head off to send to the machine shop for a quick rebuild. I found a spare set of head bolts and an extra head gasket laying around while cleaning up the garage. If I hadn't found them I probably wouldn't be ripping the head off. I'm going to order a gasket kit and a timing belt / water pump kit. Then it's just back into the car and out of my life. Well I have a little bit of body work to do. I'm going to try and document the process to fix the roof line where it was slightly crushed by a crow bar.

[Chrisnick]

If I recall correctly, I used the rail and injectors from my f22b2 and swapped them straight onto my f23 manifold when I did the swap.

[Bunta]

And people think that Honda's have no torque...it's time to shut them up.

That sentiment never made sense, unless they were comparing 1.6/1.8 liter N/A engines to 2.0+ liter boosted engines.

I'm excited for this build, one thing I wish I had a bit more of was low end grunt considering I kept the stock transmission on my H-swap.

[Rilas]

If I recall correctly, I used the rail and injectors from my f22b2 and swapped them straight onto my f23 manifold when I did the swap.

That's what I'd expect for a CD Accord. The problem with the CB is that the fuel line comes from the passenger side not the driver's side. So I need to come up with a solution that will basically extend the fuel line or buy a different fuel rail. I'm hoping that the $35 one on eBay will work perfectly.

That sentiment never made sense, unless they were comparing 1.6/1.8 liter N/A engines to 2.0+ liter boosted engines.

I'm excited for this build, one thing I wish I had a bit more of was low end grunt considering I kept the stock transmission on my H-swap.

Even if you had an H series transmission, there still isn't enough low end grunt for me. Not like an F22Ax engine on an H series transmission. I still haven't even had a chance to use one of the good H series transmissions yet, I'm still using the M2S4, and honestly it's done me well enough over the years. I wish 1st gear was a little taller to drop into 2nd gear with more hp/tq and an Accord 5th gear for the mileage on the highway. These are all goals once this F23A1 is done eating away all my spare monies. I'm going to stick with a transmission that doesn't have a factory LSD. I want a Qualfie to truly put the power down!

['93CB7Ex]

when i had a b1 in my car, i took 2 stock fuel lines and found a 3/8 barb fitting on both sides and used that to join the lines together with 2 clamps. it worked good.

[Rilas]

when i had a b1 in my car, i took 2 stock fuel lines and found a 3/8 barb fitting on both sides and used that to join the lines together with 2 clamps. it worked good.

I bought the eBay line and it looks like it's going to work perfectly.

[Rilas]

Update time. Although I haven't really worked on Lola at all. I've been working on the engine to go back into old Lola.

I also had a small disaster with trying to replace the sunroof. I finally managed to do it but I had to call in sick and make an emergency trip to Spokane, WA to Pull and Save to get a coupe sunroof. I pulled the one out of my parts car but it was for a sedan, there is a difference in the frame mounting tabs of 1/4". The shape of the roof is slightly different in the coupes due to the longer doors and farther back B pillar. On this trip I found a few goodies for Lola though. I got a set of dual pot Legend calipers, RL black leather grab handles, front grey coupe door panels, and a few other things I can't think of off the top of my head.

I've managed to buy a few items for Lola's new engine as well. Not a lot but even the small stuff is taking items off the list to purchase.

RDX Injectors with VMS Top Hats (Injectors are flow matched to within 2% of each other, and came with RDX to OBD2 clips.)


F23A Intake Manifold with RDX Injectors on F23 Fuel Rail (I still need to clean up the fuel rail, I was more concerned if I could get the injectors to work.)


eBay Civic Fuel Line


F22A6 Piston after Initial Cleanup


Front Side of Block after Cleanup (All of the brackets and shields that are bolted on have been cleaned as well. There is some dirt and whatnot that got knocked onto the block that I need to blow off with some compressed air.)


Rear Side of Block after Cleanup (There is some dirt and other stuff that needs to be blown off with compressed air as well on this side.)


Front of Block after Cleanup (The oil pump still needs to be removed. I'm going to reseal it and the rear plate as well as replace the o-rings in the oil pump. I need the cylinder head back on the block first though as I need to remove the oil pan.)


Pistons after Final Cleanup


I hoping to get the pistons ordered soon. Then I can drop off the block, crank, pistons and a few other misc parts and have the machine shop start working on all of it. Really all that is holding me back right now is cash for all the parts. Also time since I'm trying to get a 1000 things done on old Lola to get her ready to sell. I'll be back on track of more regular updates soon. I've managed to survive the holidays.

[excalibur02]

Oh man all that work you did to the h22 and its not what you expected. Well we all know your next engine build will be super clean and look great

[Rilas]

Oh man all that work you did to the h22 and its not what you expected. Well we all know your next engine build will be super clean and look great

Oh well even disappointment can lead to good things eventually. Not being happy with the H22 has led me to the F23A1 which was my original plan anyway. Well F23 block with F22A head, but I want to try the full F23A1 first. If it proves disappointing as well, then we just always jump ship and go FI or say F it all and put in a 11:1 built J36 something akin to what Jarrett is doing. I'm sure with a nice V6 she would pretty much be at her limits and more reliable than FI. Only time will tell in the long run. Either way I'm still turning wrenches and I'm happy for the most part with the car. Granted I still need to put a ton more work in to get her closer to being finished...

[Rilas]

Not much of an update on Lola really. But I have managed to finally rebuilding the engine for old Lola. I'm just waiting on a new clutch to arrive to bolt the transmission on the engine.

The last 2 weekends we have had some beautiful 35-42* weather, I've managed to take advantage of it by taking some drive's in Lola. My GF got me a GoPro for Christmas, and I put it to some good use. I'm going to try and get some videos uploaded of Lola in action here very soon.

I've done a few things to Lola that I haven't had a chance to get pictures of or document. I finally managed to get the heat gun to the trunk of the car and remove the "John Henry Auto Sales" decal. On a junkyard run a month or so ago I got some black leather RL grab handles. I got those installed into Lola as well. That has been about the extent of that work that I've managed to accomplish on her.

On old Lola though I have managed to clean half the engine bay in preparation of getting the engine back in the car. I've also managed to remove the dashboard and reinstalled all of the HVAC components onto the firewall again. I'm almost ready to reinstall the dashboard. I'll get some pictures of where I'm at with this stuff, just to keep you all in the loop of where I'm at on this project.

[zedjr10]

That's a beautiful accord. One day mine will look the same i hope. Like the auto temp control. Rims look really nice and the sleeper look is beyond cool.

[Rilas]

That's a beautiful accord. One day mine will look the same i hope. Like the auto temp control. Rims look really nice and the sleeper look is beyond cool.

Thank you Zed! I'm hoping to maintain the sleeper look throughout the life of the car. Also I'm trying to incorporate a lot of the technology from the newer cars out there. Eventually get a backup camera integrated like Raf99 has, and some other features I've seen. I've got an Acura TL/CL auto rear view mirror retrofitted, but haven't gotten it reinstalled since, old Lola was stolen. I have a bunch of small stuff to get installed/work on for Lola, just I'm trying to wrap up old Lola so I can sell her.

All it really takes though is some patience and a lot of dedication. I know your trying to get yours running in top condition now.

[Rilas]

Alright it's been awhile since I've updated this thread with anything. That being said it's update time!

I've managed to get most of old Lola put back together in every way possible. The engine is back in the engine bay with 90% of everything hooked up and plugged in. There are a few things left that either need to be ordered or picked up from the junkyard. I'm making a junkyard run on Monday as we have president's day off, to Pull and Save in Spokane, WA. I've ordered the last big piece I needed which is the Innovative Auto to Manual mount. I still need to make one last order from Rockauto as she needs some new brake pads. I'm not going to be putting new rotors on it, just pads. I've spend more than enough cash on this thing getting back up to par on the engine and trans, I'm not going to sink any more cash into her than I need to. I might have a possible buyer lined up as well, which would be awesome!

I actually have a few updates on Lola as well. I've actually managed to purchase something for her, for the first time in awhile.

- JDM Foglights (Thanks Nick!)
- EGR Block-Off Plate (Thanks Nick!)
- Fumoto Adapter for Oil Drain Valve (ADP-106)
- Fumoto Oil Drain Valve (F-106)
- KSTuned.com F23 Rods (Rated for up to 600hp)
- KSTuned.com Balance Shaft Delete Kit
- Nippon Racing K24Z3 Pistons
- Civic Aluminum Radiator (3 core with full shroud)

I'm going to pickup the block tonight, and hopefully drop it off today before the machine shop closes. If not I'll have to drop it off on Tuesday, as I won't be home before they are closed on Monday.

I'm most likely going to get the valve springs and 1mm OS stainless steel valves bought in the next couple of days as well.

I've been working with KBA to figure out the correct cam specs for this engine. I need to get a few more measurements for him, and then we can get the cam dialed in a bit more. I'm hoping to get this stuff measured this weekend.

I'll get some pictures of stuff up in the next day or two. I'm starting to get excited about this build, now that progress is being made.