Raf99 : 1993 Accord EX

[JDMef9]

There is no hub dyno around on the east coast in Canada from what I know.

[Raf99]

Sooooooooo ok. After talking with the tuner we figured out what was going on. It wasn't the wheels slipping, it was the clutch :/

No other dynos in the area, especially ground ones. But we both agreed that strapping it down very tight is the equivilant of putting slicks on the car. Both will show one the next weakest link. And we looked at the dyno graph and once above 6K the rpms went up but the HP did not.

Now on the street the car is fine. But .... it's a Bully Stage 4 clutch with a max HP rating of 400. I'm making 410HP.

...........So.......... ..............

twin disc is the only answer here. And that will happen when i get the new tranny rebuilt. Hopefully this summer, but we are talking about dumping a lot of money in the the car. I may just drive it all summer and make all of this a winter project. We'll see.

The other note here is that twice now I heard a high pitched squeel coming from the clutch when taking off in frist. Never heard that sound before and never heard it again, but it is all telling me signs of what she is doing.

[Rilas]

Raf why is a twin disc and a bunch of money necessary? Wouldn't something like this work fine ACT Clutch, until you up the boost and HP? $500 isn't that bad of a price really to hold almost 500 ft/lbs of torque. They also offer a 6 puck that will hold the 490 ft/lbs of torque as well. I'm sure you can find it retail for a bit less as well considering that is directly from ACT. Then again the being in Canada might screw you yet again, but then again this is a part from a major company so I would imagine you could find it from somewhere in Canada.

[baracuda]

Sooooooooo ok. After talking with the tuner we figured out what was going on. It wasn't the wheels slipping, it was the clutch :/

No other dynos in the area, especially ground ones. But we both agreed that strapping it down very tight is the equivilant of putting slicks on the car. Both will show one the next weakest link. And we looked at the dyno graph and once above 6K the rpms went up but the HP did not.

Now on the street the car is fine. But .... it's a Bully Stage 4 clutch with a max HP rating of 400. I'm making 410HP.

...........So.......... ..............

twin disc is the only answer here. And that will happen when i get the new tranny rebuilt. Hopefully this summer, but we are talking about dumping a lot of money in the the car. I may just drive it all summer and make all of this a winter project. We'll see.

The other note here is that twice now I heard a high pitched squeel coming from the clutch when taking off in frist. Never heard that sound before and never heard it again, but it is all telling me signs of what she is doing.

So were you able to re-dyno? or are yall thinking its making 410hp due to the tune and everything? I imagine you are going twin disc for better drivability vs the 4 or 6 puck clutches?

[Granite CB7]

Well that's certainly frustrating! NWaccord is running a competition stage 4 and IIRC LoDollar92LX was also running a comp stage 4 as well. Like Rilas mentioned, if you're gonna get raked over the coals on shipping to Canada, shoot me a PM. Keep up the phenomenal work

[Raf99]

Raf why is a twin disc and a bunch of money necessary? Wouldn't something like this work fine ACT Clutch, until you up the boost and HP? $500 isn't that bad of a price really to hold almost 500 ft/lbs of torque. They also offer a 6 puck that will hold the 490 ft/lbs of torque as well. I'm sure you can find it retail for a bit less as well considering that is directly from ACT. Then again the being in Canada might screw you yet again, but then again this is a part from a major company so I would imagine you could find it from somewhere in Canada.

Ya, that's $588 CDN + taxes + shipping, so it will be around $700CDN. Plus installation, tuning, etc. Probably looking at $1000+ total if you include the fluids, new clutch bearings, etc. I have my tuner looking into pricing. For now I'm going to run this clutch I have until it gets worse.

So were you able to re-dyno? or are yall thinking its making 410hp due to the tune and everything? I imagine you are going twin disc for better drivability vs the 4 or 6 puck clutches?

I know its making 410HP from initial tune after we installed the turbo which was almost 2 summers ago when we had it on the dyno. The clutch held up fine then. But we had the car raised like a 4x4 and it had no positive camber and the clutch was brand new. Now it's on the 2nd summer of use but must have less than 1000km on it so.... hard call.

Well that's certainly frustrating! NWaccord is running a competition stage 4 and IIRC LoDollar92LX was also running a comp stage 4 as well. Like Rilas mentioned, if you're gonna get raked over the coals on shipping to Canada, shoot me a PM. Keep up the phenomenal work

I know I'll get raked over the coals with shipping, always do. With the exchange rate + shipping + customs fees a $500 clutch will come to $800 most likely. Sucks.

[Raf99]

So I'm assuming ACT doesn't make a clutch for the H22 that takes more than 490HP ?

[Rilas]

ACT rates their clutches on torque not hp, so you should be able to run something like that and kick up the boost a bit more. I know your at 410 HP but what is your torque sitting at?

Crap also I thought you would be able to install this yourself, and not have to pay for the labor of that. You can pull your transmission yourself, with a jack and 3 jack stands.

Is there a way to avoid some of those fees, if someone in the US purchased it and mailed it up there? Or do you still get hit up for importing something into Canada?

[Raf99]

ACT rates their clutches on torque not hp, so you should be able to run something like that and kick up the boost a bit more. I know your at 410 HP but what is your torque sitting at?

Crap also I thought you would be able to install this yourself, and not have to pay for the labor of that. You can pull your transmission yourself, with a jack and 3 jack stands.

Is there a way to avoid some of those fees, if someone in the US purchased it and mailed it up there? Or do you still get hit up for importing something into Canada?

Ahh yes, good point. I'm running 300tq. Weird how they use torque #'s,. So looking like that clutch will work as I think 490tq would be around 600HP. I could do the install myself but it would be a tough go compared to someone who has a lift.

"Moderate to heavy pedal effort, aggressive engagement, OE to mild gear rattle"

What is gear rattle??

[Rilas]

This is the best I got for gear rattle in about 10 minutes.

1. INTRODUCTION

The term gear rattle makes reference to the sound induced by impacts between the unloaded gear mesh pairs in thetransmission. It can be noticed on manual transmission vehicles in neutral condition (idle rattle) related to the enginefiring frequency. Impacts occur with greater intensity on diesel vehicles, once that torque irregularities are increased withthe adoption of this fuel. Rattle is also described in literature referring to a condition where high levels of vibrations arefound in the transmission (drive rattle). For Drexl (1988), all automotive powertrains with manual transmissions havehigh levels of torsional vibration operating between 1000 and 2000 rpm, related to natural frequencies varying from 50 to70 Hz in a linear characterization.Heirichs and Bodden (1999) described gear rattle as an air borne sound, occurring when torsional vibrations of thegearbox are transmitted to its housing through the bearings. It also have a structure borne parcel, originated when thegearbox mounting system interacts with the vehicle frame. In some cases, the shifting system can contribute transmittingvibrations directly to the passenger cavity. In recent years a device called dual mass flywheel (DMF) has been used toreduce these vibrations, due to its inertial, stiffness, and damping effects (Albers, 1994). Instead of using a single flywheelinertia attached to the crankshaft, when a DMF is installed, the transmission input shaft inertia is increased, allowing bettervibration insulation in both idle and drive rattle condition.Singh et al. (1988) and Kim and Singh (2001) created nonlinear models to represent this phenomenon using a dead-zone nonlinearity to represent the gear backlash. Umezawa et al. (1986), based on experimental data, created an approx-imate curve for the simulation of helical gear pairs with time-variable mesh stiffness. Cai (1995), based on this previouswork, incorporated geometric parameters such as the overlap ratio (ε) and transverse base pitch (Xz) to that formulation,enabling it to represent possible discontinuities on the total mesh stiffness due to the number of teeth in contact. Thealtered formula was applied for gear rattle simulations by Wang et al. (2001), Wang et al. (2002), Brancati et al. (2005)and Brancati et al. (2007).In this work, Cai (1995) representation of the helical gear pair will be included on the model. The analysis of idlerattle will be taken with a systemic approach, testing also modifications on other system components. Natural frequenciesof the linearized system in idle will be calculated and compared to the order content of the engine input torque. Then,a nonlinear model with piecewise linear stiffness and hysteresis representing the clutch and time-varying stiffness withbacklash for the gears, will be subjected to alterations in clutch, gears and its inertial parameters in order to compare thegear rattle response in terms of vibration intensity.

STUDY OF THE GEAR RATTLE PHENOMENA IN AUTOMOTIVE POWERTRAIN SYSTEMS (PDF Download Available). Available from: https://www.researchgate.net/publica...RTRAIN_SYSTEMS [accessed Apr 28, 2016].

So transmission noise while in neutral at idle basically for the simpletons.

I supposedly have mild to moderate pedal effort and anymore driving a stock clutch Accord it feels like there is no clutch. I'm sure in your comparison to your Bully Stage 4 it shouldn't really feel much different I would imagine.

[Raf99]

ok, thanks

[Raf99]

So yesterday I experienced a reverse gear lock out. I noticed that 5th gear synchro was worse than usual. Combine that with racing a fella and the tranny became really stiff to use for reverse. I think it's time to do something about this tranny before I'm locked into a gear or locked out of a gear.

And........ haha, got caught by the police with the radar detector which is illegal here. This happened on the way back home on the highway. Wasn't speeding or anything but had it on. He detected my detector with his detector. Was a great guy about it though. Still a $410 ticket

[Darkcloud]

So yesterday I experienced a reverse gear lock out. I noticed that 5th gear synchro was worse than usual. Combine that with racing a fella and the tranny became really stiff to use for reverse. I think it's time to do something about this tranny before I'm locked into a gear or locked out of a gear.

And........ haha, got caught by the police with the radar detector which is illegal here. This happened on the way back home on the highway. Wasn't speeding or anything but had it on. He detected my detector with his detector. Was a great guy about it though. Still a $410 ticket

That will be a problem on the trans, and ouch that ticket. You wouldn't need a radar if you lived in cali, cops here stick out like a pink honda easy to spot. Lol

[apalileo]

I didn't even know that their guns could catch detectors. That certainly sucks.

[Raf99]

the guns cannot detect the detectors, but they also have radar detector detectors which detect cheap detectors. If you buy the more expensive detectors $599+ then they cannot detect them.