Teflon Coated Service (need info pls)

[peego]

Does any know where I can send my crankshaft and rods to get it treated w/ Teflon coated. I have contacted couple of companies, but they do not provide such service for the item I'm asking about. if you could please direction me in the right direction or a web add. I would gladly appreciate it.



JAH BLESS

[wed3k]

at the end of the building, there's a coatings shop and he was going to teflon coat the outer barrel on my airsoft gun.

would you like me to get some price quotes?

[johnl]

Why do you want to teflon coat the crank and rods??

[CB7Man]

Teflon is crazy smooth...its like a permanant oil
I know of one oil addative that actually coats your engine in Teflon

Its this Slick-50 engine oil treatment.
You can run your engine OUT of oil and it will keep running fine for a long time
The military runs it in their Hummers and they can keep running for days with no oil pan.

As for coating the areas that arent being used, then its useless

[v4lu3s]

Teflon is crazy smooth...its like a permanant oil
I know of one oil addative that actually coats your engine in Teflon

Its this Slick-50 engine oil treatment.
You can run your engine OUT of oil and it will keep running fine for a long time
The military runs it in their Hummers and they can keep running for days with no oil pan.

As for coating the areas that arent being used, then its useless

if slick 50 worked why was there a class action lawsuit against it brought by the Federal Trade Commission??



to the OP....don't call around asking for teflon coating, just ask them what kind of performance anti friction coatings they have. http://polydyn.com/ is a place that i have used before for coatings and they were very fair in their prices as well as having good service. anyway tell them what parts you want coated and ask what they have.

[Fake Thug]

Yeah.. I've heard nothing but bad things about teflon base products like slick 50, marvel mystery oil..etc. I'm also a mechanic in the army reserve and I/we have never used slick 50 types on anything. Not saying that the military does not use it though, but in my unit we always just change the oil with 15w40 or straight 40 weight only.

[CB7Man]

Yes I believe they may have stopped useing it...too expensive
The military used to use it from what I was told, and I had seen it on TV once in a while.

The reason people sued about Slick-50 is for engine problems right?
Teflon (if used improperly) will build up and become a clog
This clogs oil passages in many small engines, leading to starving for oil
This is a lesser problem in the huge engines.
Also another claim is that the oil "Chemicly Alters" the metal of the engine, which could then weaken it...could be true who knows
I stopped useing Slick-50 mainly because I found that Honda uses O-Rings and seals that are affected by about 70% of additives.
Before that I did a Slick every 2 oil changes and never had any problems

I remember a long time ago the Slick-50 demonstrator would go across America and run his litttle 5hp Briggs & Stratton, with no oil. Claimed it was treated by slick 50 and never needed oil.


"PolyDyn fluoropolymers become part of the coated materials' surface: .005" to 0.50" actual penetration, depending on the material. While some overbuild can be removed, it is virtually impossible to extract a polymer from the pores of the metal to which it is applied."

Taken diretly off of the website you posted, thus they state the same thing as Slick-50.
Werd

[johnl]

Sounds like a bad idea ro me. What if the coating starts to peel off inside the bearing clearance? Really, the bearing surfaces are kept apart by the oil film, the friction is miniscule.

[wed3k]

the coating fills the pores of the surface and maintains a smooth surface for the oil.

hence the ACL race and clevite race bearings.

[johnl]

I would be asking myself:

How much more power will it actually give me?
Am I absolutely certain it won't cause any reliabilty issues?
How much is this going to cost?
Is it worth it????

[wed3k]

it doesnt give you any power, if it does, it just frees it up due to less roational drag.

the coating is about 2 tenth's thick so you may want to compensate for the thickness in your clearance's.

the cost is about 40% more but it is good insurance in a race motor.
is it worth it? probably not...but one may never know until they've tried it. personally, im gonna run coated bearings in my motor because i dont know when ill be taking the motor back out.

[peego]

if slick 50 worked why was there a class action lawsuit against it brought by the Federal Trade Commission??



to the OP....don't call around asking for teflon coating, just ask them what kind of performance anti friction coatings they have. http://polydyn.com/ is a place that i have used before for coatings and they were very fair in their prices as well as having good service. anyway tell them what parts you want coated and ask what they have.

I called Polymer Dynamics an they quote me $129 to Oil-Shedding Coating the crankshaft and $19 a piece to coat the rods.

I forgot to mention my rods is already cryo treated (oem h23 rods w/gsr arp 9mm bolts)


Thanks for the link and yall input(s)

[johnl]

it doesnt give you any power, if it does, it just frees it up due to less roational drag.

the coating is about 2 tenth's thick so you may want to compensate for the thickness in your clearance's.

the cost is about 40% more but it is good insurance in a race motor.
is it worth it? probably not...but one may never know until they've tried it. personally, im gonna run coated bearings in my motor because i dont know when ill be taking the motor back out.

I called Polymer Dynamics an they quote me $129 to Oil-Shedding Coating the crankshaft and $19 a piece to coat the rods.

I forgot to mention my rods is already cryo treated

Are you racing the engine? Do you know of any reputable race engine builders who recommend it?

I can see a potential benefit if the coating is tough enough to prevent potential damage to the bearings / journals in the event of momentary oil starvation as you might get from oil surge in the sump at high lateral and longitudinal accelerations. Does your car see big 'G' forces? If it sees enough G force to cause oil surge you really need a dry sump system or at least better sump baffling.

It worries me that the coating is 'oil shedding'. I'd want a coating that retains oil, especially considering that a road car sees a lot more cold starts than a race engine (more starts period), where oil may have drained out of the bearings. Cold starts are when the vast majority of engine wear occurs.

Why coat the rods? This seems pointless to me when it's the bearing surfaces that see friction and oil flow. I can see some point in teflon coated pistons, but in my understanding the coating doesn't last all that long on pistons so isn't of any long term benefit for road engines where it may be for 'real' racing engines as the pistons are replaced relatively often.

Cryo treatment is another thing of debatable merit, from what I gather many professional engine builders and materials engineers seem to think it offers little if any improvement, and others seem to disagree, i.e. that it offers some slight improvement...

[wed3k]

http://www.swaintech.com/store.asp?pid=10966

http://www.calicocoatings.com/bearings.html

both reputable companies right there.
my engine will be a race motor and the oil pan will be baffled with a windage tray.

id rather coat the piston skirts and/or the tops of the pistons then the rods too.

you dont gain improvement from cryo treatment, it is about the longevity. the bottom end just needs to be bullet proof, it doesnt gain any power and if it does, it is freeing up Hp.. the real power is from the cams and the cylinder head. so get that power gain from the lower end out of your mindset.

[johnl]

id rather coat the piston skirts and/or the tops of the pistons then the rods too.

you dont gain improvement from cryo treatment, it is about the longevity. the bottom end just needs to be bullet proof, it doesnt gain any power and if it does, it is freeing up Hp.. the real power is from the cams and the cylinder head. so get that power gain from the lower end out of your mindset.

Teflon for the skirt, ceramic for the crown.

I wasn't thinkng improvements as in horespower etc, but rather the claimed improvements in strength, wear resistance and dimensional stability of components.

I've read discussions between professional engineers, most seemed to think cryo treatment was A grade voodoo, i.e. no real gains in strength etc...