Diagnosing Miscroscopic Shavings in Oil

[af_1132]

Well, before I go crazy spending hundreds on the Accusump setup + oil pressure gauge, maybe I should really work on finding the source of the microscopic shavings in the oil. To be honest, if one or more of my rod/main bearings is going, then I need to tackle that first.

After the second change since the new motor, the amount of shavings and the average size of the shavings appears to have decreased, but nevertheless, here is what they look like: Instagram Post

If you look at the comments on that post, people have various ideas as to why the shavings are there, and whether or not I have the right dipstick for measuring oil level. Let's just get the facts about the motor out there first:

1. '98 H23A from HmotorsOnline (guaranteed to have btwn 45k and 55k miles)
2. Moroso H22 drag/road race baffled pan (literally just a modified F22 pan with divets and all to allow for the gasket to be used), 1/2 qt. increased capacity
3. Using the H23A dipstick
4. Car takes 6 qts after oil change to read between the dots on that dipstick, on flat ground.

At my first track day, I started with 4.5 quarts, and I spun out on a quick left turn, which is the only time that the dummy pressure light has come on since swapping. The engine did not die. I added another 1/2 quart to make 5 quarts total in the pan for the rest of the track day. It wasn't until after this last oil change that I really double checked and found out about the new 6 total quart capacity.

In hindsight, I am ashamed to say that the first track day was done with a John Vega basemap, not his full remote tune or any tune. Shifts were done below 6.5k, and AFRs were around 14.0 WOT above the VTEC switch point. That was dumb and did not help the situation.

So, I have a couple questions and could use your experienced eyes:
1. Do you think it is possible that the VTEC lobes were rarely used during the motor's Japanese life, and are wearing down now due to much more frequent use without any break-in oil?
2. Do you believe one or more rod bearings took a beating and are continuing to deteriorate? The sump is on the left side and I did take a left turn, after all. On a related note, can those bearings be changed out from underneath after removing the pan, windage tray, girdle, and connecting rod lower bracket?
3. Am I using the right dipstick? Moroso never mentioned anything about another dipstick being needed, just that the capacity is now 1/2 quart higher with the kicked out sump.

[sonikaccord]

1.
I HIGHLY doubt that VTEC Lobe wear contributed to that many shavings. I wish I still had my H23A Prelude as it's lobes looked pristine. Never got a chance to do a second oil change. What weight oil are you using? Looks like that curb upset the car a bit lol. At least it was a smooth spin with no body damage. I slid into the dirt on my first track day so don't feel bad
What RPM did the oil light blink at? If it was less than 2k or so, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

2. In BMW ///M land, where rod bearings spin all of the time, they can be performed with the engine in the car. I'm pretty sure that the H can be as well. Actually, a rod bearing spun on my old H22a4, and I successfully removed the rod bearing with the engine in the car. If it can be removed, it can be installed!

3. As long as the dipstick height relative to the bottom of the sump didn't change, you shouldn't need to change dipsticks. Since it is kicked out in the horizontal plane, it'll take a little more oil to reach the "between the holes" fill indication. Makes perfect sense right?

Do left hand turns in the CB move oil away from the pickup? I don't remember right now...

[af_1132]

I am using 5W-30 oil, and the light came on at about 4k-5k.

Did you take the head off to remove the bearing in the H22A4? I am hoping (well, not hoping) to do it from underneath once the windage tray and girdle are removed.

Long left sweepers will have the oil pushed against the right side of the pan as it reacts to the lateral centripetal acceleration to the left.

[sonikaccord]

Ouch. Yeah, may have been a bit of oil starvation. Just looked at the pick up location on the H, and left turns will definitely move the oil away, equal and opposite reactions . The baffles should've prevented that!

The head can stay on. You have enough space to move the piston up and down to release the bearing top half. If you want to be extra careful you can treat it like a valve adjustment and close the valves of the cylinder you are working on.

[af_1132]

Thanks a million Sonik! I still hope it is not a bearing or bearings, but at least I know it can be done from underneath!

The only thing I am worried about is the reestablishment of correct clearances/tolerances and torque specs on the girdle and the rocker arm caps.

[steelbluesleepR]

I'm curious why you were tracking it while 1.5 quarts low.

[af_1132]

It wasn't purposeful, I can tell you that. I wasn't purposefully running low in order to avoid any windage, since I have the OE windage tray. I have heard of people doing that, and that sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Actually, your reply makes me realize that I actually had an extra quart on hand that I added to the engine during the track day. I definitely filled up with the 5 qt. container first before I would've opened up the additional quart.

So, with all the facts a little straighter, the first time filling with oil, here was my thought process: F22's take 4.5 qts. at oil change, and I figured H22's and H23's were the same deal since they have the same displacement (relatively) and the same oil pan geometry. It wasn't between the dots on my driveway, so I added another 1/2 quart to make it 5 total. After adding oil during the track day to make 5.5 quarts, I checked the level and it was between the dots. That was very level ground in the paddock, but possibly sloping very slightly downhill toward the front of the motor, thus reading slightly high. So, I'm thinking that I was actually 1/2 quart low?

One blunder, for sure on my part, was the lack of reading regarding the extra .5 quarts required for the kicked out sump when first filling up. 20/20 hindsight bights hard in the butt.

To me, it seems that 6 quarts to get between the dots is excessive in my situation, and that H23's oil capacities are not 5.5 quarts stock. I live in the mountains, so flat paved areas do not exist close by. It makes me paranoid that no ground is perfectly level enough to measure oil level using the stick. This is why I went with the Honda service manual's recommendation of 4.5 quarts at changes rather than reading the dipstick when I had the F22.

At this point, I will drive as far as I need to to find perfectly level ground, and then measure the dipstick level now. I'll come back here with the findings.

[PhatAccord]

Isn’t the oil level suppose to be right at the upper dot on the dipstick? I’ve read your posts; and you say that the oil level is between dots. If it is between the dots, it’s still low on oil. Or am I missing something here?
I have a spare h22 dipstick in my garage. I can send you a picture on IG to see if we are in the same page.

[AccordWarrior]

Send a sample to Blackstone to see what the shavings are metallurgically. Then you can trace what they originated from.

[af_1132]

Isn’t the oil level suppose to be right at the upper dot on the dipstick? I’ve read your posts; and you say that the oil level is between dots. If it is between the dots, it’s still low on oil. Or am I missing something here?
I have a spare h22 dipstick in my garage. I can send you a picture on IG to see if we are in the same page.

Yes please. You can DM me there, or just post it here if that is easier. If I am supposed to be at the upper dot, and I currently have 6qts. in there when midway between the dots, then that means my capacity is 6.5qts, which really seems to high at that point. Again, I will be taking the car to a really flat spot a couple minutes away to fully measure the oil level and see where it truly is.

Send a sample to Blackstone to see what the shavings are metallurgically. Then you can trace what they originated from.

Thank you for the recommendation. I was going to ask about a reputable company with which to have an oil analysis completed. I just ordered the test kit from them.

[af_1132]

I have some updates for this situation.

First, on truly flat ground, in several different locations, the dipstick measures ABOVE the top dot, just barely. This leads me to believe that 5.5 qts is the perfect amount for this motor/pan combo.

Second, I got my Blackstone oil collection kit in the mail, and collected my sample to ship to them. The whole process of obtaining the kit and mailing the sample is free. They could not have made it any easier if they tried! When I checked the contents of the oil at this drain, there were the smallest amount of shaving bits on the drain plug magnet, and I could barely make out the finest microscopic fragments floating on top of the drained oil. This is good news!

I'll be back with the news from the Blackstone test.

[af_1132]

Wohoo, got the Blackstone Report on my oil today!

I have good news, and that is that there is no indication that I have a worn/spun/or otherwise bad crank bearings in the analysis. They look for unusually high levels of lead primarily, then copper and iron secondarily to detect bearing wear. Here are the values for my sample at 100 miles versus the universal average at ~ 4900 miles:

Mine: - - - - - - - - - - - - Average:
Lead: 0 ppm - - - - - - - -4 ppm
Copper: 1 ppm - - - - - - 3 ppm
Iron: 4 ppm - - - - - - - - 12 ppm

Some metal numbers were well above the average in my sample are as follows:

Mine: - - - - - - - - - - - - - Average:
Magnesium: 812 ppm - - -159 ppm
Boron: 194ppm - - - - - - -55 ppm
Titanium: 31 ppm - - - - - 0 ppm
Manganese: 22 ppm - - - -1 ppm

I am curious if you guys know where the motor oil may come into contact with these metals in the H23A head/block.

EDIT: I heard back from Blackstone labs after reaching out. All of those metals are additives in the oil, and since I use Castrol Magnatec, that makes perfect sense that those metals are higher than the average samples they work with. What a cool company this is! They are oil gurus!