I want to build an engine for better towing

[The_Head]

Don't make fun of me, but I like to use my Accord to tow light loads such as my motorcycle or scooters with my small utility trailer. Total weight less than 1,000 lbs. I get 25-28 mpg doing this, running normal gas, so it's much more economic than using my truck.

These cars will do it, but in my experience they are pretty anemic, so I was thinking of building a block for better towing performance. I was thinking of a slightly stroked build with slightly higher compression, a NA build. I'd like to keep it simple and run a stock ECU, how far could I go (stroke/compression) on the stock ECU? Would it be feasible?

[Joey GT-R]

None of that is possible on a stock ECU. If you want to make more power you're going to have to invest in the modifications to make it reliable. Your only other choice is a more powerful engine such as an H23A or H22A.

[mtnbikaah]

H22A and Legend calipers.

[The_Head]

None of that is possible on a stock ECU. If you want to make more power you're going to have to invest in the modifications to make it reliable. Your only other choice is a more powerful engine such as an H23A or H22A.

I don't know. I think I could bump it up to 9.5:1 (not sure what pistons yet), and run an F23A crank (mains ground down to 50 mm for F22 block iirc) and maybe be ok, on better gas. I am open to getting the proper ECU mods so it can be tuned, but would rather not.

[reklipz]

None of that is possible on a stock ECU.

I don't know much about tuning/major modifications, but, for our understanding, can you elaborate on why none of this is possible on a stock ECU? Doesn't one only need to change the fuel/air/etc. mappings/tables on the ECU to make this happen? Don't we have that capability thanks to folks like cloudasc, etc?

Thanks! Good luck OP! Switching from a stock ECU isn't really that much of a hassle, is it?

[XCRN]

I would say H23A1 non-VTEC. No need to spend money on VTEC if you are never really going to use it or need it for towing.

[The_Head]

Thanks! Good luck OP! Switching from a stock ECU isn't really that much of a hassle, is it?

I don't tune, I would have to take the car hundreds of miles to a reputable tuner. I use Neptune, and would have to have Neptune added to this car, plus the dyno/tuning time cost. With the cost of transport, I am looking at about $1,000 right there.

It's all academic for now.

[Joey GT-R]

I don't know. I think I could bump it up to 9.5:1 (not sure what pistons yet), and run an F23A crank (mains ground down to 50 mm for F22 block iirc) and maybe be ok, on better gas. I am open to getting the proper ECU mods so it can be tuned, but would rather not.

So you're considering increasing compression by almost a full point AND running a crank with modified mains that aren't designed for the engine on the original tune? It's just my opinion but read your own words a couple more times over my friend.

To my knowledge, there are no pistons off the shelf that provide a compression ratio of 9.5:1, so you're talking a custom order. The closest thing are stock F23A1 pistons, combined with the F23A1 crankshaft puts compression at 9.48:1. Some might say that's not much, but it's up to you on the risk you want to take. Keep in mind you will have to bore and rehone your block to 86mm.

The F20A DOHC has an 85mm bore with a 9.5:1 ratio, but good luck finding those in the states.

I don't know much about tuning/major modifications, but, for our understanding, can you elaborate on why none of this is possible on a stock ECU? Doesn't one only need to change the fuel/air/etc. mappings/tables on the ECU to make this happen? Don't we have that capability thanks to folks like cloudasc, etc?

Thanks! Good luck OP! Switching from a stock ECU isn't really that much of a hassle, is it?

cloudasc is far from done with his work, so traditionally you're going to need a tunable ECU(P06, P28, P75, etc). After that you need software of which the OP has already stated he prefers Neptune.

[toycar]

Are you auto or manual?


You may be better off looking into a tranny swap vs building an engine for this.





I personally wouldn't change much but rather invest in the cooling system and tranny and making sure the trailer is set up correctly. Tire size, pressure, hitch height, etc etc


You need more torque for more pep while towing, not more hp. HP numbers are merely a measure of how fast the power can be duplicated. You need more actual power in the first place.


What engine is in the car? If you are running an f22a1 you have room for improvement on stock parts and a stock ecu. I mean you aren't going to break landspeed records but about a 5% increase in torque there on stock parts.


You probably have some lost performance from wear and tear as well. Maybe you are running OEM gaskets in the intake/exhaust or maybe your valves are out of adjustment. Who knows.


You should offer up more information though so we can better assist.

[The_Head]

Toy car, I own a 1990 LX sedan with a stock F22A1 and a 5 speed manual with 148K on it. It runs fine, I have not towed with it yet. I have owned 2 prior Accords and towed with both of them (see ex wifes car in sig). I would like the say the F22A6 is a little better.

I am looking for a little more torque, not much, just 5-10 ft lbs more in the normal operating range of the engine. Not looking to modify the exhaust, or extend the rev range.

Joey-GTR, isn't it a big no no to have a mismatch on the bore of the block compared to what the head was designed for? I thought it caused hot spots? There's a big writeup on this site about that iirc.

Would it be possible to offset grind the F22A1 crank to get a little more stroke? That would probably require getting custom pistons though.

[evil_demon_01]

You need more torque for more pep while towing, not more hp.

This.

I am looking for a little more torque, not much, just 5-10 ft lbs more in the normal operating range of the engine.


Would it be possible to offset grind the F22A1 crank to get a little more stroke? That would probably require getting custom pistons though.

You want to do all that work just for 5-10 ft lbs?

Boost it and you'll have all the torque you need.
I towed 1-2 tonne loads easily in my old Accord.

[mtnbikaah]

You need more torque for more pep while towing, not more hp. HP numbers are merely a measure of how fast the power can be duplicated. You need more actual power in the first place.

Depends on terrain. For climbing hills you need HP.

Torque gets you moving, horsepower keeps you moving.

[Jarrett]

All of this crankshift grinding talk is making my head spin. Only consider doing that if you've run out of other options. In your case what's preventing you from going to a junkyard and just getting an F23A1 shortblock and throwing your head on top of it? Seriously, there's $200, tops, right there in the purchase of the block. Tack on another $200 for gaskets and seals and you have a far less expensive setup that will be much more reliable than a crankshaft with the mains ground down.

[The_Head]

I didn't know you could put an F22A head onto a F23A block.

Was worried of this:

http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showpost...56&postcount=1

But if that's not an issue, an F23A block is totally the way to go for what I want to do.

Edit: Looks like it is an issue, but the head can be machined to resolve it.

[Jarrett]

The post you're referencing is mine and the machining that needs to be done can be accomplished with a sure hand and a decent file. You only need to take the sharp edge off. Some people don't even do that.