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    F22A3 & F22A7 Owners Reply!

    As alot of members of this site are aware, I have been working on developing software to tune the pt3/pt6 family of ecu's that are used to run our f22ax's.

    When reading wikipedia I see:
    ------------------------------------------------------
    F22A

    This engine series was used in the Honda Accord and Honda Prelude S. Aside from differences in tuning, these engines are substantially similar.

    Specifications
    Bore × Stroke: 85.0 × 95.0 mm
    Displacement: 2156 cc
    Valve configuration: SOHC, 16 valves, non-VTEC
    Compression ratio: 8.8:1
    Max power: F22A1: 125 hp (93.21 4 kW) @ 5200 rpm. (Accord Dx,Lx). The 1992–1996 Prelude S had a F22A1 but because of a different more aggressively tuned ECU (P12), the power output was 135 hp (100 kW).
    F22A3: 150 hp (110 4 kW) European domestic market engine, with more power due to less strict emission standards.
    F22A4: 130 hp (96.94 kW) @ 5200 rpm. (Accord Ex) The F22A4 is the same motor as the F22A1 but it has slightly more power due to a tubular designed header and slightly bigger exhaust piping.
    F22A6: 140 hp (104.40 kW) @ 5600 rpm. The F22A6 is the same as the F22A1 except for a slightly more aggressive camshaft, a better flowing cast exhaust manifold, a different more aggressively tuned ECU (PT6), and a different intake manifold that utilizes IAB's and also has a bigger plenum. The F22A6 also has a windage tray in the oil pan, and stiffer valve springs to accommodate the more aggressive camshaft.
    F22A7: 140 hp (104.40 kW) @ 6101 rpm

    Max torque: F22A1: 137 lb·ft (186 N m) @ 4000 rpm
    F22A4: 142 lb·ft (193 N m) @ 4000 rpm
    F22A6: 142 lb·ft (193 N m) @ 4500 rpm
    F22A7: 145 lb·ft (198 N m) @ 5000 rpm

    ---------------------------------------------------------

    The f22a3 supposedly has more horsepower due to less strict emissions standards. I would really like to aquire as much information as possible about the pt3/pt6's that are most likely used to run these two engines. This would include pictures, and most importantly reading the data off the 28-pin prom in the ecu.

    What does this mean? What am I thinking?

    We all know the p12 ecu from a prelude can add 10 hp just by changing the ecu from a pt3 for an a1/a4 cam. Everyone else with a6's do not have a factory option available to do the same thing, except what could possibly be this. With access to this specific rom, you could get that extra hp for cheap, and when it comes to emission time all you need to do is flip a switch (using a two timer setup), and you can be running smoggable program (maybe even a california emission version for the other 49 states to help pass emissions).

    Whoever uploads a genuine pt3/pt6 ecu rom used for the f22a3 will most undoubtedly receive significant reputation. If the ecu in fact is from the same family as the pt3/pt6.

    In regards to the f22a7, I would definately like to see the programming and pictures of the ecu used with the motor too.

    Who here would like to add 10 hp to their (healthy) f22a6 for under $7?
    Last edited by cloudasc; 02-12-2012, 01:32 AM.
    PT3/6 Development Thread | My 1991 LX Coupe | DIY: 90-93 Tcu Fix


    #2
    I would like to see where this goes. So based on what I am reading here all you would need is the mappings for the said ROMs for the A3 and A7s's? And are the cams the same as the A1/4/6 (A1 being the lude cam of course), or are they a different spec? Keep us posted!!!
    The CB7 Collector.
    Team Kindred Impulse Member #3
    92 LX Coupe F22A1
    2013 Toyota Corolla S
    92 EX Sedan F22A1
    Originally posted by deevergote
    Do you really need to make a thread asking if having your car like this /---\ will cause uneven tire wear? Try walking like that for a few weeks and see if your shoes wear funny! (hint: they will.)

    Comment


      #3
      While I cannot offer you the ROMs you're looking for I will give you my continued support in your endeavors.
      My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!

      Comment


        #4
        The f22a3 has higher compression, 9,8:1.
        http://bildr.no/view/1086111
        Last edited by Cb3vtec; 02-12-2012, 07:04 AM.


        MRT:http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=164408

        And on the eight day God created Honda!

        Comment


          #5
          so another oem ecu "p12" adds 10 hp or is that ecu just for the higher compression?
          Last edited by thepowderblue; 02-12-2012, 11:16 AM.
          Green EX http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=176536
          93 SE http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=210486

          Comment


            #6
            If you have an F22A1/4, yes. Go read up.
            My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!

            Comment


              #7
              I know for fact from lindiz's car that the f22a3 is a higher compression engine

              It also has a tach that redlines at 6500rpm instead of our standard 6300.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Cb3vtec View Post
                The f22a3 has higher compression, 9,8:1.
                http://bildr.no/view/1086111
                Originally posted by Tippey764 View Post
                I know for fact from lindiz's car that the f22a3 is a higher compression engine

                It also has a tach that redlines at 6500rpm instead of our standard 6300.
                Well that is cool, but totally sucks at the same time.

                I guess honda thinks the american public is a bunch of morons, thats can't put the right gas in their cars since they didn't give us the same pistons as the european market. Either that or our gas is crap compared to what they use in europe. Most likely the latter.

                I guess someone needs to update wikipedia with the correct information.

                Regardless it will still be useful to aquire some pictures of the ecu's used over there, and the rom dumps, as the more information we can aquire the better.

                So the f22a3 makes an extra 10hp over the a6 just by having having 9.8:1 compression over 8.8:1 compression? Or are there other details that we are not aware of?
                Last edited by cloudasc; 02-12-2012, 05:31 PM.
                PT3/6 Development Thread | My 1991 LX Coupe | DIY: 90-93 Tcu Fix

                Comment


                  #9
                  UK and Europe get 95 standard fuel 98 premium fuel. BP do 102 at a few stations and Tescos (like Walmart) has 99.

                  So yes our fuel is better than yours by a good bit. But jeez do we pay for it!

                  Fuel + 9.8 comp ratio, are the main reasons.

                  The A3 has a6 spec cam, A4 header, and butterflies. Well on my 4ws A3 thats the case as stock.

                  There is the same amount of emissions control on the A3 than on all my other cbs, so theres no difference there.

                  I have a PT3 in mine also.

                  Also Lindiz has no longer got a A3 in his car, he has now a H22a7 from a type R.


                  UKDM 93 CB3 Page (1) H22A U2Q7 LSD
                  UKDM 91 4ws Page (3) OEM Minter
                  NOW H22A U2Q7 SWAPPED

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The fuel is not exactly better, is is just diffrent octane ratings ...

                    Originally posted by marcusv8thunder View Post
                    UK and Europe get 95 standard fuel 98 premium fuel. BP do 102 at a few stations and Tescos (like Walmart) has 99.

                    So yes our fuel is better than yours by a good bit. But jeez do we pay for it!

                    Fuel + 9.8 comp ratio, are the main reasons.

                    The A3 has a6 spec cam, A4 header, and butterflies. Well on my 4ws A3 thats the case as stock.

                    There is the same amount of emissions control on the A3 than on all my other cbs, so theres no difference there.

                    I have a PT3 in mine also.

                    Also Lindiz has no longer got a A3 in his car, he has now a H22a7 from a type R.


                    MRT:http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=164408

                    And on the eight day God created Honda!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by cloudasc View Post
                      Well that is cool, but totally sucks at the same time.

                      I guess honda thinks the american public is a bunch of morons, thats can't put the right gas in their cars since they didn't give us the same pistons as the european market. Either that or our gas is crap compared to what they use in europe. Most likely the latter.

                      I guess someone needs to update wikipedia with the correct information.

                      Regardless it will still be useful to aquire some pictures of the ecu's used over there, and the rom dumps, as the more information we can aquire the better.

                      So the f22a3 makes an extra 10hp over the a6 just by having having 9.8:1 compression over 8.8:1 compression? Or are there other details that we are not aware of?
                      No

                      back in the early 90's permium fuel was not as readily available as it is today.

                      It is the same reason why honda motors that require premium fuel have knock sensors. They gave them knock sensors to detect lower quality fuel and be able to run better on it encase it was all you could get a hold of.

                      Originally posted by marcusv8thunder View Post
                      UK and Europe get 95 standard fuel 98 premium fuel. BP do 102 at a few stations and Tescos (like Walmart) has 99.

                      So yes our fuel is better than yours by a good bit. But jeez do we pay for it!

                      Fuel + 9.8 comp ratio, are the main reasons.

                      The A3 has a6 spec cam, A4 header, and butterflies. Well on my 4ws A3 thats the case as stock.

                      There is the same amount of emissions control on the A3 than on all my other cbs, so theres no difference there.

                      I have a PT3 in mine also.

                      Also Lindiz has no longer got a A3 in his car, he has now a H22a7 from a type R.
                      no your fuel is no better than ours. You measure your fuel in RON we measure ours in octane. If you convert them you will find out that they are the same fuel.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Tippey764 View Post
                        No

                        back in the early 90's permium fuel was not as readily available as it is today.

                        It is the same reason why honda motors that require premium fuel have knock sensors. They gave them knock sensors to detect lower quality fuel and be able to run better on it encase it was all you could get a hold of.



                        no your fuel is no better than ours. You measure your fuel in RON we measure ours in octane. If you convert them you will find out that they are the same fuel.
                        What is your take on the reason why the a3 got better compression pistons then the a6?

                        Also what is different about the a7 that it creates its max torque at 5k (+2ft lbs over the a6) rpms, and its peak hp at 6.1k? vs the a6's max torque @ 4.5k, and max power @ 5.6k

                        Ron & Mon have now reared their ugly head into this conversation
                        PT3/6 Development Thread | My 1991 LX Coupe | DIY: 90-93 Tcu Fix

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Tippey764 View Post
                          No

                          back in the early 90's permium fuel was not as readily available as it is today.

                          It is the same reason why honda motors that require premium fuel have knock sensors. They gave them knock sensors to detect lower quality fuel and be able to run better on it encase it was all you could get a hold of.



                          no your fuel is no better than ours. You measure your fuel in RON we measure ours in octane. If you convert them you will find out that they are the same fuel.


                          Yeah your right, they do come out the same you guy use MON. However, though our blends are different. But yeah thats not the biggest reason for the differences.


                          UKDM 93 CB3 Page (1) H22A U2Q7 LSD
                          UKDM 91 4ws Page (3) OEM Minter
                          NOW H22A U2Q7 SWAPPED

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I remember looking all that info up a while back and yes you Euro folks do pay out the ass for fuel (My brother is stationed in the UK and he bitches about it). I would like to get my hands on those pistions or even a whole block for that matter. Given what I know about the F22Ax (plus research) this sounds like a good base to start from if one is looking for some power from, and dare I say but even better than the H22 or F20B, to start from.
                            The CB7 Collector.
                            Team Kindred Impulse Member #3
                            92 LX Coupe F22A1
                            2013 Toyota Corolla S
                            92 EX Sedan F22A1
                            Originally posted by deevergote
                            Do you really need to make a thread asking if having your car like this /---\ will cause uneven tire wear? Try walking like that for a few weeks and see if your shoes wear funny! (hint: they will.)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              are you sure its not a 150ps power reading that they put out? because ps is less than hp. Same as my H22A, I think it makes 200ps or something like that

                              member's ride thread
                              93' EX Coupe H22A w/ P2T4 Sir 5spd 191whp 155 wtq
                              99' Lexus LS400 157k VVTi V8 gets up & goes...new DD
                              91 Accord SE 176k
                              97' Honda Odyssey 199k miles...$485 spare van for my parents

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