Con Rod Bearings

[CBAccordA4]

Well, sounds like the F22B DOHC that I just dropped in a little over a year ago has issues with the con rod bearings. I hear the knocking/tapping sound honeslty after I was running an 08 SI. 7K shifts. Turns ou I had an oil leak I didnt notice so I was a little lower on oil than I usually am. I had about 1 qt when I checked it after that. I added another quart and it quiet down a bit but I hear it anywhere over 2800rpm more audibly when the load from the tranny is put upon the engine. Its actually not severe right now or not too loud. I actually thought it was the distributor shaft at first, thats how quiet it was. Anyway. Heres my question, If the bearings are bad, and you had access to a H22 block, would you replace the F22B bearings or put the H22 bock in. Time and money is a factor. What would be faster??, I can get the block at a very good deal, probably just as much as the bearings.

I havent cracked that oul pan in a while so I forgot if the rod bearing can be changed after the main bearings and oil pan come down.

Also what bearings are best to order for this engine, H22a, F22a, or H23a, F23a?? Any advice is appreciatted, I wanna get the ball rolling by tomorrow. Chill

[gloryaccordy]

Damn that sucks man. I'm gonna check my oil tomorrow morning. Experts can chime in, only issue I see is that the difference in bore sizes... but the motor will actually run nice, u might actually have to run w/premium gas now as compression will go up quite a bit (a lil over 10:1)

Plus u'll be able to rev higher... might need a little tune. Blessing in disguise

Someone has a full JDM F22B DOHC longblock on B20 for $400, u could prob talk him down to $350 but the H22 block sounds like a more fun project...

[CBAccordA4]

Damn that sucks man. I'm gonna check my oil tomorrow morning. Experts can chime in, only issue I see is that the difference in bore sizes... but the motor will actually run nice, u might actually have to run w/premium gas now as compression will go up quite a bit (a lil over 10:1)

Plus u'll be able to rev higher... might need a little tune. Blessing in disguise

Someone has a full JDM F22B DOHC longblock on B20 for $400, u could prob talk him down to $350 but the H22 block sounds like a more fun project...

Honestly I want take the easiest way out. I dont want to take on any projects right now. I want it to be a 5-6 hour fix you know. I never even seen an H22 block under a f22b dohc head before anyway and would hope its a direct swap. Im gonna see if I can get a sthethoscope and see if I can narrow that knocking sound away from the block. I wish it could be transmission, clutch related.

[mrhonda]

I would just install new bearings in the F22

[Old School]

Con bearings will make a lot of noise at idle. Lowest oil pressure.
You may be in a save position
Check other things.
O Pump
"knocking/tapping sound"
Really sounds like something else then crank bearing.
Stethoscope may help.
Should do a little more T Shooting.

[CBAccordA4]

Con bearings will make a lot of noise at idle. Lowest oil pressure.
You may be in a save position
Check other things.
O Pump
"knocking/tapping sound"
Really sounds like something else then crank bearing.
Stethoscope may help.
Should do a little more T Shooting.

Well, I really dont hear anything at idle. Only above 2800 rpm to about 5000 then I dont hear it anymore, I revved it high just to test it. I also noticed that the same power/pull isnt the same. As far as the knocking/tapping, I dont know what to label it as the sound isnt too loud and makes it hard to determine. I havent really dont much trouble shooting yet. Just driving and EAR testing and some experience froma 25 year vet mechanic who drove it. I'll try and do more trouble shooting tomorrow tho. I'll also try and record the noise and post it here tomorrow, Im sure someone here had the exact same noise and problem. Chill

[CBAccordA4]

Anyone ever change con rod bearings while the engine was still in the car. I am trying to avoid taking this engine out at all cost, just dont have that kinda time. I dont want to risk scratching my new bearings while installing them and Im worrying about the installation of the top bearing of the rod toward the top. Advice from the engine specialist is appreciated

[bmxfelon420]

Anyone ever change con rod bearings while the engine was still in the car. I am trying to avoid taking this engine out at all cost, just dont have that kinda time. I dont want to risk scratching my new bearings while installing them and Im worrying about the installation of the top bearing of the rod toward the top. Advice from the engine specialist is appreciated

Just a thought, but it'd probably almost be easier to take it out and do it that way, trying to work around it being installed in the car sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

[CBAccordA4]

Just a thought, but it'd probably almost be easier to take it out and do it that way, trying to work around it being installed in the car sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

If I have to take that motor out, its either to build it or replace it. My cousin says he's done it before so i'll take his word on it, he's a 25 year tech. I get where your coming from though, more working room and angling will make the job easier and more likely more successful.

What bugs me is OldSchool said con rod berings make the most noise at idle and mine seem to be the exact opposite, but I hear the noise coming definatley through the oilpan.

I also wonder if this is because my EGR is now inoperative. Dizzy is pretty fresh, spark plugs are good, no vac leaks. I'll get the timing light out today and check that and I'll also post the noise coming from the engine when I accelerate the motor.

[CBAccordA4]

Heres a little vid of how the engine sounds on engine acceleration with no load.

http://s124.photobucket.com/albums/p...t=DSCI0521.flv

[preludeman92]

Judging by that vid it doesn't sound like bearings. I'd be more suspect of an accessory, belt, or valve lash being out. Since the noise only happens at certain rpms... and mid-rpms at that...that would tell me it's nothing mechanical in the engine.

My prelude makes a similar noise at similar rpms (3800 to 5200). One of the mounts for my exhaust heat shield has broken from the car and lets it rattle but only between those RPMs.

You say this: "I also noticed that the same power/pull isnt the same". That doesn't make sense. Do you have the same power or not? That would have a huge difference on your next step.

Here would be my next steps:
1) remove accessory belts (PS and AC/Alt). Run engine and see if the noise still happens.
2) get under the car and start playing with heat shields. They are double walled so check carefully. The mount on mine that needs help is the last one at the joint from the mid-pipe to tail pipe area.
3) check the tension on the timing belt... failing auto-tensioners sound similar, but your engine should have a manual tensioner
4) check in the dizy for excessive play both axially and radially

[CBAccordA4]

Judging by that vid it doesn't sound like bearings. I'd be more suspect of an accessory, belt, or valve lash being out. Since the noise only happens at certain rpms... and mid-rpms at that...that would tell me it's nothing mechanical in the engine.

My prelude makes a similar noise at similar rpms (3800 to 5200). One of the mounts for my exhaust heat shield has broken from the car and lets it rattle but only between those RPMs.

You say this: "I also noticed that the same power/pull isnt the same". That doesn't make sense. Do you have the same power or not? That would have a huge difference on your next step.

Here would be my next steps:
1) remove accessory belts (PS and AC/Alt). Run engine and see if the noise still happens.
2) get under the car and start playing with heat shields. They are double walled so check carefully. The mount on mine that needs help is the last one at the joint from the mid-pipe to tail pipe area.
3) check the tension on the timing belt... failing auto-tensioners sound similar, but your engine should have a manual tensioner
4) check in the dizy for excessive play both axially and radially

Thanks for the advice, no I dont have the same power now that I hear this knocking. The power loss is very minor though. I'll check exhaust mounts and accessories tomorrow.

[preludeman92]

Did you mis-shift and over rev at all? 7k rpm on an h23/f22 shouldn't cause any problems internally unless you were low on oil or mis-treated the motor to begin with.
Another thing you might do is pull the valve cover and inspect your valvetrain... check for busted springs, missing keepers, bent valves, mushroomed valve tips, gouging to the cam surfaces, misaligned rocker arms, very loose rockers, ect.

The head should suffer damage before the lower end so you should see evidence there.

Check all the stuff in the head though.

[benji]

Anyone ever change con rod bearings while the engine was still in the car. I am trying to avoid taking this engine out at all cost, just dont have that kinda time. I dont want to risk scratching my new bearings while installing them and Im worrying about the installation of the top bearing of the rod toward the top. Advice from the engine specialist is appreciated

It's possible. You take the caps off and then just roll the new bearings in, without even taking the crank out. As long as you don't mind laying on your back for a long while, it's not bad. The worst parts are you have to get the bearing colors first (personally, I'd just take everything apart and look at each bearing, rather than trust the crank markings because one of the markings on my H22A crank was a different color than the bearing I pulled out) and you have to do the new ones multiple times to check clearances.

Really, I'd say it's a full two day project if you are taking your time and being careful.

[CBAccordA4]

Did you mis-shift and over rev at all? 7k rpm on an h23/f22 shouldn't cause any problems internally unless you were low on oil or mis-treated the motor to begin with.
Another thing you might do is pull the valve cover and inspect your valvetrain... check for busted springs, missing keepers, bent valves, mushroomed valve tips, gouging to the cam surfaces, misaligned rocker arms, very loose rockers, ect.

The head should suffer damage before the lower end so you should see evidence there.

Check all the stuff in the head though.

Yeh I ms-shifted a few months ago from 3rd gear at 7000 rpm straight to 2nd gear but I caught it quickly with the clutch. Im guessing it revved to about 10,000 rpm, at least thats what it sounded like. Another thing could have been that I had a leak from the oil drain bolt and didnt know, I was running an 08 SI civic pretty hard one morning and it was really after that when I noticed the noise. Turns out I only had 1 qt of oil left when I checked right after I let the engine cool.

Thanx for all the advice man I just couldnt do much T-shooting due to the 15 degree weather were having in NY. I'll check all the things you mentioned tho.
But I beleive you said rod bearings make the most noise at idle if they are bad and if thats true, the noise on my engine shouldnt be coming from there. Thanx again.

Benji thanx for the advice