car wont turn over, battery, cel lights

[bagoon316]

You dont need to replace the cylinder when you replace the switch. Just get the switch.

sorry for the dumb question here, but thats the fuse box brown plug up to the clear lookin plastic thing on the end of the cylinder (other end of key). this...

Ignition Switch?

[d112crzy]

That's it.

It's held on by 2 small screws on the cylinder.

[bagoon316]

i appreciate the help d112, you seem to have all the answers for me lol. also thanks to black pearl with the help. the switch is ordered from majestic as well as a couple of other parts needed. hopefully this weekend or following i will have good news.

[BlackPearl2006]

You could JUMP the switch

This may be pointless if you've already ordered the part, but I just remembered another way to figure out if it's the switch before having to order a part you might not need (though I'm pretty sure you do need it.) I'm just posting this for extra info, in case anyone else might be able to benefit from it)

There is a way to jump the switch (to see if that's the problem in the first place).

If you look at the plug that goes into the kickpanel fusebox, the wires that go to the plug should be:

White/Black: Accessories
White: Battery
Black/Yellow: IG1
Yellow: IG2
Black/White: Starter

To jump the terminals, remove the plug and assemble 5 leads with female connectors (I think they're female; I can't remember off hand right now, if not, then go male, lol). Now, EXCEPT for the lead that goes to the Starter terminal, connect the female sides to the corresponding sockets in the fusebox (where the ignition plug would go into), and then crimp (or ghetto twist) the other sides of the wires together so they all touch each other EXCEPT for the Starter lead: leave this one NOT connected to the others for now.

If you jump ALL of the corresponding terminals to those wires EXCEPT the Black/White one (starter), the car should behave as it does when your key is at Position II: Seatbelt beep comes on, Engine check light comes on momentarily, all other system lights come on momentarily, then shut off, except for the ones that normally stay on until the car is started (like battery light, brake light if parking brake is still engaged, seatbelt light if belts not fastened of course etc..), all interior lights, fan, dash, radio, and accessories should be able to come on now.

If that much alone now works (instead of the way it is now where none of your accessories or interior lights come on at all), then you can be sure your ignition switch is crap for sure. We already know your starter works, since, in its current state you are able to crank the car already, so you don't need to connect the 5th lead to figure out if it's the switch. (and i would avoid doing it, because that lead has a lot of power going through it, and it's not safe to try to start the car that way. But you can try, if you think you know what you're doing. (by the way, I just taught you how to start a car without the ignition/key.)

Anyway, that's a way to test if it's the switch without having to go and buy one first. If after connecting the 4 leads you STILL don't get interior lights or accessories, then it might be a different problem. But if it does work, then yeah, it's your swtich. I shoulda thought of that before. Sorry.

I've actually done this to my car (manual 91 EX) before, and had to drive it like that for a while before I could afford to replace my switch. Except rather than engage the starter from under the dash, I went under the hood and removed the power lead from the starter (that goes to the switch/relay), and made my own lead that went from the starter to an open-ended side of a wire. Making sure the tranny was in neutral, I would plug the 4 leads in the kickpanel together, then go under the hood and momentarily touch the open-ended side of that lead wire from the starter directly to the positive battery terminal until the car started up. Now that's GHETTO! If you ever do it this way, stand to the side of the car, not in front of it, and make sure the e-brake is on. It's not really safe to do, but if you're in a pinch, I'm just letting you know how you can get it running even if your switch is bad.

[bagoon316]

aight, so here is an update. all i did was quickly plug the new ignition switch in the fuse panel and take a screw driver clicked it over and still had no clock, dome, all the accessories...nothing. for shits and giggles went to start it, just turned over.

so i got a little technical, put a little gasoline in the t/b and started it, started right up and ran smooth, but had no interior lights, dome, or anything. there has to be a weird short in the car somewhere because sometime the chime chimes without the key in it.

also sometimes when the key isnt in there you can turn the dome on but as soon as you put the key in it shuts off. there has to be some relay under the dash or something. the car gets fuel sometimes because i took the nut off the end and fuel would come out. mind you this is when we are just messing around under the dash tapping on things and such. so for now i dunno what the hell is wrong with this thing. if anyone has any good ideas please let me know.

[evil_demon_01]

^^^Blackpearl - How to steal a car 101, helpful advice to many types of people

[BlackPearl2006]

aight, so here is an update. all i did was quickly plug the new ignition switch in the fuse panel and take a screw driver clicked it over and still had no clock, dome, all the accessories...nothing. for shits and giggles went to start it, just turned over.

so i got a little technical, put a little gasoline in the t/b and started it, started right up and ran smooth, but had no interior lights, dome, or anything. there has to be a weird short in the car somewhere because sometime the chime chimes without the key in it.

also sometimes when the key isnt in there you can turn the dome on but as soon as you put the key in it shuts off. there has to be some relay under the dash or something. the car gets fuel sometimes because i took the nut off the end and fuel would come out. mind you this is when we are just messing around under the dash tapping on things and such. so for now i dunno what the hell is wrong with this thing. if anyone has any good ideas please let me know.

Man, I'm really sorry. I thought I had the right line of thinking (it was ignition SWITCH related) when you mention the engine doesn't catch and no interior lights/accessories, etc..

I don't get it. Heck, I don't even know why your dome light acts funny; as far as I know the dome light isn't even dependent on ignition power. It should come on automatically when the doors are open (or if you switch it on) whether or not the key is even in the ignition.

Your starter works, so it sounds like you do have your constant power. It just seems you're lacking all your primary ignition power (all the electrical systems that activate only when the key is at Position II.) (though you do seem to have secondary ignition power: spark, at least, since you did get the engine to run)

You got a new switch, so we've ruled that out. So it's gotta be somewhere at or between the fuse boxes. Or maybe need a new fusebox? Check to see if the underhood fusebox has all the plugs plugged in correctly (on the side and underneath it). You may have to unscrew it from the chasis to inspect the underside.

The fact that you're getting a chime even when the key isn't in there...... the chime is suppossed to chime to remind you to turn off the lights if you leave them on and you open the driver door. I think it is also to remind you to take your key out if you leave your key in the ignition by the time you open your driver door (and the key is still at position I or 0). So, yeah, you're probably right in thinking there's a short somewhere.

Recheck the fuses one more time. Particularly the 50AMP IGNITION fuse in the underhood fusebox. Even though you checked all the fuses at the fusebox (visually, I assume) for broken fuses, did you check them for power (with a test light)? Maybe the fuses are good, but there's just no power going to them (or thru them). Get a test light or one of those fuse puller/testers and see if there's even power going to them. (turn ignition to Positon II, then, if using a test light, ground your testlight end on the chasis, then use the poke side on each end of each fuse. Light should turn on for each fuse and each side of the fuse. Do this at both fuseboxes).

If you have power, then next I would check for shorts:Turn car off.
Disconnect negative battery cable.
Bridge the negative cable to the chasis by using your testlight.
If the test light comes on, there's a short.
Pull fuses one by one until light goes out (or changes in output noticeably, as you may have more than one short going on.)

Even if you find a short, though, that may not explain why it seems you're lacking ignition power. Dome light power going out too, which is not dependent on ignition power.... leads my next educated guess to be the fuse boxes, or the wiring between them, as I mentioned before.

Just shooting out ideas for you, man.

I feel kinda bad that my original guess didn't help you out, so forgive me if I'm sending you on wild goose chases. I'm really hoping you figure this out. Fingers crossed.

[BlackPearl2006]

^^^Blackpearl - How to steal a car 101, helpful advice to many types of people

Hehe, I figured real thieves who steal cars already know how to jump the wires, and the would-be-thieves would have figured it out on their own anyway.

[bagoon316]

I was looking into the wiring schematic in the haynes manual, and was looking at the number 2 fuse inside the EAT ECU fuse, and it looks like that fuse controls the battery indicator light, tach, and ignition. so i am gonna check that one. also i have the fuse box from the cb3, so its a jdm box. is it still the same layout, i cant really compare because the cover is in japanese lol.

its fine about the chase, now i have a new ignition switch. this car will be brand new by the time im done lol. i opened one of the main relays up and it looked fine so i dont think that was a problem.

the test light, are you talking more like a tick tracer pretty much with a light on the end?

[bagoon316]

update again...

first i checked the EAT ECU fuse, and it wasnt blown or anything. so i then went to the test light, simple test, negative to positive, light came on. then tested some things in the fuse box (under hood), ignition light came on, battery fuse light came on, tested random fuses light came on. then tested some grounds, ground to ground, no lights every came on. i the proceeded to test positive to ground. first positive to negative, as before worked. then tested grounds, fuse box ground light came on, tested both "big" grounds in those plastic cases light came on.

i still have to test the inside fuse box in position II like you said. maybe i do have a short in there somewhere.

anyways, while i was under the dash checking the EAT ECU fuse i pushed the brake pedal and i heard some clicking (relay), so i grabbed the main relay and pushed the brake pedal and the main relay clicked (i could feel it). is this supposed to happen?

oh it started on first turn, but had to be from gas left over in the t/b from yesterday, because it died off in a matter of seconds.

[bagoon316]

another update, both fuse boxes are getting power, checked the main under hood, pulled every fuse and it was fine. proceeded to the interior fuse box, set my test light to ground and pulled fused to check the light (position II). everything was fine.

im not getting fuel, the fuel pump isnt priming. i honestly think that its the main relay now. that part of the harness wasnt hooked in behind the cc unit, it was just hangin so it had to have been changed before. could this be a possibility, it only starts with starter fluid or gas in the tb/intake mani. let me know fellas.

[d112crzy]

another update, both fuse boxes are getting power, checked the main under hood, pulled every fuse and it was fine. proceeded to the interior fuse box, set my test light to ground and pulled fused to check the light (position II). everything was fine.

im not getting fuel, the fuel pump isnt priming. i honestly think that its the main relay now. that part of the harness wasnt hooked in behind the cc unit, it was just hangin so it had to have been changed before. could this be a possibility, it only starts with starter fluid or gas in the tb/intake mani. let me know fellas.

does it stay idling after it starts with the starter fluid?

[bagoon316]

yeh until it runs out. and when i mean idle i mean that higher start idle 1200-1500, not long enough to hit 800ish, but its smooth up there. just sits there, no weird noises, no erraticness (is that a word?), its clean.

[BlackPearl2006]

Maybe you should check power to the fuel pump then. I'm not sure exactly how though. Maybe you can take a test light to the sending unit wire under the rear seats?

Someone chime in. I've never had to test the fuel pump myself. I had a shop do it, and then they ended up replacing it.

[bagoon316]

i can look into it i am sure its in the haynes manual. that would suck though if it is the fuel pump, i just drained it and filled it back up with fresh gas, has almost a full tank.

does anybody know if the main relay controls electrical components as well as fuel (position II on ignition switch)?

if so i think thats my problem. im not getting fuel, and the clock, dome, all that doesnt come one.