F22B/H23A vs. F22A6+H23 IM?

[gloryaccordy]

I'm pressed for cash and in growing need of a motor+tranny.

-How do the DOHC non-VTEC motors compare to a better than average F22A6?

-Is there a lot of power to be made in tuning w/an ECU and cam gears?

-With the higher displacement and compression, is the H23A noticeably stronger than the F22B DOHC?

I like the H22 but I need to get back on the road sooner than later, and a bunch of shit just came up.

[Shadow1]

to tell you the honest truth, if your worries about getting on the road just get a stock motor. then worry about performance later. unless you have the money to get the F22b or H23.

[foamypirate]

DOHC F22B from Makoto Motors (or something like that) on ebay is around $600-700 shipped. Don't waste your money on a stock motor. AFAIK, the F22B is pretty similar to the H23, they have pretty much the same power levels, despite compression differences. They both pull harder than the F22A6, as well. They are also much easier to tune if you go turbo, or even NA, due to being able to tune exhaust/intake individually.

[gdout90accord]

im pretty sure you heard of jose/ d12crazy running 15.2 with his jdm F22B and chipped ecu

[gloryaccordy]

DOHC F22B from Makoto Motors (or something like that) on ebay is around $600-700 shipped. Don't waste your money on a stock motor. AFAIK, the F22B is pretty similar to the H23, they have pretty much the same power levels, despite compression differences. They both pull harder than the F22A6, as well. They are also much easier to tune if you go turbo, or even NA, due to being able to tune exhaust/intake individually.

Yea the individual cam thing is nice. I'd definitely get cam gears down the line. I don't think I'll go too in-depth with this motor though...I just wanna get back on the road, and w/the price difference being so small I figure "eh might as well go DOHC".

Also, I got a new OEM clutch in December of last year. Will it be OK for another year?

[92ex]

what I'm trying to figure out now is, the f22b is 2.2L with a 9.2:1 compression making 160hp 148tq. h23 2.3L 9.8:1 compressoin 160hp 156tq...

The h23 should be a bit more powerful then the f22b. but only 6tq difference. and that's probably from the displacement. I've been wondering if:
A) the f22b head flows better then the h23 head
B)f22b cam is more agressive then the h23
.1L more and .6:1 more compression should make for more power then just 6tq. Or am i overthinking this?

[Caution]

what I'm trying to figure out now is, the f22b is 2.2L with a 9.2:1 compression making 160hp 148tq. h23 2.3L 9.8:1 compressoin 160hp 156tq...

The h23 should be a bit more powerful then the f22b. but only 6tq difference. and that's probably from the displacement. I've been wondering if:
A) the f22b head flows better then the h23 head
B)f22b cam is more agressive then the h23
.1L more and .6:1 more compression should make for more power then just 6tq. Or am i overthinking this?

honda vtec motor usually got lower compression ratio, most of there engines do when compare to then non vtec motor thats because of the deeper valve strokes when vtec come on thats y the h23 has higher compression than the f22b. They accomplish that by having a deeper dish on the vtec motor and the non vtec motor has a slightly higher dish on the piston. Now if you get the type r or anything jdm that is made for performance then it is a different story. That would answer your question as to y the h23 got higher comp than the f22b.

Now the head flow on the f22b is not that good compare to the h23. The ports are smaller on f22b and bigger on the h23. to make up for the lost of air flow on the head is the vtec and the speciallly designed roller rocker arms on the f22b(lots of people dont know about that but they are a way of reducing mechanical friction freeing up power)

as for the aggresive cams, sohc motor with vtec only have performance lobes on the intake side and not on the exhaust side that is due to timing and stuff there isnt enought timing to do that on 1 cam and the lobe spacing and the duration. Now on the dohc non vtec the lobes are alot higher and have longer duration because there is plenty of space and duration since each camshaft has it own timeing. REally, i think ur thinking to hard! It gets way to complex to explain y and stuff.

[Mike]

honda vtec motor usually got lower compression ratio, most of there engines do when compare to then non vtec motor thats because of the deeper valve strokes when vtec come on thats y the h23 has higher compression than the f22b. They accomplish that by having a deeper dish on the vtec motor and the non vtec motor has a slightly higher dish on the piston. Now if you get the type r or anything jdm that is made for performance then it is a different story. That would answer your question as to y the h23 got higher comp than the f22b.

what the hell are you talking bout?

there both non vtec motors

and idk where your getting your info but most vtec motors have a higher compression

looks like you tried to sound smart and failed horribly

[gdout90accord]

honda vtec motor usually got lower compression ratio, most of there engines do when compare to then non vtec motor thats because of the deeper valve strokes when vtec come on thats y the h23 has higher compression than the f22b. They accomplish that by having a deeper dish on the vtec motor and the non vtec motor has a slightly higher dish on the piston. Now if you get the type r or anything jdm that is made for performance then it is a different story. That would answer your question as to y the h23 got higher comp than the f22b.

Now the head flow on the f22b is not that good compare to the h23. The ports are smaller on f22b and bigger on the h23. to make up for the lost of air flow on the head is the vtec and the speciallly designed roller rocker arms on the f22b(lots of people dont know about that but they are a way of reducing mechanical friction freeing up power)

as for the aggresive cams, sohc motor with vtec only have performance lobes on the intake side and not on the exhaust side that is due to timing and stuff there isnt enought timing to do that on 1 cam and the lobe spacing and the duration. Now on the dohc non vtec the lobes are alot higher and have longer duration because there is plenty of space and duration since each camshaft has it own timeing. REally, i think ur thinking to hard! It gets way to complex to explain y and stuff.

ahahahahahaahhahhaha damnn your pretty smart

none of these motor has VTECH LOLS

[gdout90accord]

what the hell are you talking bout?

there both non vtec motors

and idk where your getting your info but most vtec motors have a higher compression

looks like you tried to sound smart and failed horribly

DAMN you beat me to it

[onyx10]

ive wondered this for quite some time

[d112crzy]

All other bullshit aside, he does have a good point. Why isn't there more of a difference? Could be more agressive tuning for the japanese market? But I doubt they would detune the h23 that far.

Robert, got any factory f22b cams at your house? I've got some h23's, we could compare and atleast knock out one possibility. L8r

damn, i was about to ask the same. I got some h23 cams next to me right now.

but i do believe it is in the tune, as well in that bump in compression.

[owequitit]

The F22B is rated at 160PS or about 157HP, so there IS a slight difference.

Also, due to the smaller displacement, the F22B makes both numbers at higher RPMs than the H23, so the specs are a little misleading.

Also, it is likely that Honda tuned the H23 for a little bit more torque down low, so that would offset some of the high RPM gain.

Even if the cams on both are exactly the same, keep in mind that with an extra .1L displacement, that would make the cams in an H23 relatively less aggressive, if only slightly.

Then when you consider the ECU tuning, Hondas are tuned for 91 in the states, and have the potential to be tuned for better fuel in Japan.

Then there are a lot of other little factors in play, such as exhaust flow rate, cat flow rate, exhaust manifold design, intake flow rate etc, that may have an impact on how well the engine can breathe, and thus make power.

One interesting note too. I noticed that the H23 has the same size valves as the F22AX. Perhaps there is a slight flow restriction at 2.3L, that the F22 doesn't experience as badly. The H22 has larger valves than either, but it realistically redlines about 1,000RPM higher, and has less displacement to boot.

Don't know, that is all just speculation.

[djcaz_aom]

I agree. I also recall speaking with someone at JoTech motorsports on the subject some time ago. They told me that the only advantage a DOHC has is adjustability. A SOHC has more possibility to out flow a DOHC. (On Hondas) The F22a & b have very good flow characteristics, so to answer the question, yes the F22b outflows the H23. I found out because I was thinking of boosting my a4 and was inquiring on which head to use: F22a4, F22b, or the H23. They told either SOHC would out flow the DOHC.

I hope this info helps.

[gloryaccordy]

The F22B in question here is the JDM DOHC one, not the SOHC VTEC paperweight.

The F22A heads I imagine flow pretty well. I would not doubt at all that my A6 would have given an F22B DOHC a run for its money.

I too wonder how the two motors are rated so closely with such a discrepancy in displacement and compression. Wilder cams would only further kill the F22B in the low end as it has both less displacement and lower compression, so I think the difference lies in headflow and the ECU tuning. Unfortunately, from what I've seen the P39 is impossible to find, so I'll be running w/a P14 anyway, which I imagine will give me a shitty fuel map for the F22B setup.

What ECUs are people running with F22Bs?