A6

[91accord1]

Hey whats up! I had a question.......I have a 91 cb7 Lx F22a1....and I am looking to throw in a a6 cam...Now I'v heard that theres really not that big of a difference between the a1 cam and the a6 cam.....I have the a6 runners with the H23 upper plenum and throttle body, cold air intake, 4-2-1 header, high flow cat, High flow fuel filter, Muffler.....What kind of gain should I exspect to see????


Thanks!

[DjSpeedy]

Hey whats going on...could have just asked me since I sold it to you. My understanding is that it is something like 5 to ten horse with all the other add ons you have. Best thing to do when you get it is ship it out to delta and have then do a grind on it. 260 is best for everyday use. With the setup you have you CAN look at an additional 15 to 20 horse that way. Geberal rule is 1 horse for 100 dollars, doesn't always work, but getting 10 horse for a hundred bucks seems cool to me.

I will be sending a cam to delta once I get my timing belt and shit done.

[owequitit]

The stock A6 cam is good for about 6-7HP of the total difference of 10 from the A4.

It is a noticable and decent increase, but it isn't like OMG! I can't believe how fast it is!

If the cam is out of the car, I would go ahead and have it reground also. 10 or so HP for $100 is really good return on investment.

I didn't have it reground when I did mine, because the regrinds were still very new and only a few people had them. Nobody had put very many miles on one, and slipper followers and regrinds generally don't last very long, so I was skeptical and didn't want to risk the reliability as I drive 20-30K per year.

[deevergote]

I've always wondered about regrinds and followers... I've always read that regrinds were bad news, but so many people use them successfully. Hell, 2point6 was (still is?) running some Web regrinds in that monstrous H22 of his! I'm expecting to get some Rocket Motorsports regrinds for my motor, in fact.

Back on topic, I second the regrind suggestion. Unless you're looking for extreme reliability (which is almost always compromised when you modify your car), the regrind should be fine. Better to do it now so you only have to do the cam install once! Do your timing belt and water pump while you're at it (I'll be doing that soon too).

[owequitit]

I think regrinds have generally been ok with direct acting valvetrains like the Nissan SR20, and also on roller followers because of the reduced friction.

Since the slipper followers have so much more contact area with the cam lobe and also basically result in one metal sliding across another stationary piece of metal, the end result was that the friction would wear the metal down quickly, in some cases a few thousand miles (so I have heard).

I think they basically came up with new hardening processes to make sure whatever material they altered or added was nearly as strong as the original cam. I know at one point 2point6 had 50K on his engine with no problems. He may have also swapped to roller rockers though, I am not sure.

As an interesting side note, with slipper followers, you are supposed to change the rocker arms every time you change the cam, because they basically "wear in to each other." It is actually the rocker pad that counts, but they are integral, so the whole arm has to go. That is both costly and a pain in the ass.

So far I haven't had any problems with mine in 30K or so, but there is slightly more valvetrain noise, and the valve adjustments seem to not last quite as long.

They are getting longer though, so I think the rockers are wearing into the new profile, and I flog the snot out of it, which isn't good for valve adjustments either.

[owequitit]

While your in there changing the belt and cam, I highly recommend making sure you pick up some spark plug tube seals. It will add about 30 seconds to the job, and it would really suck if you had to take it back apart to change them once you had everything together.

[wed3k]

While your in there changing the belt and cam, I highly recommend making sure you pick up some spark plug tube seals. It will add about 30 seconds to the job, and it would really suck if you had to take it back apart to change them once you had everything together.

make sure you use hondabond on those seals...i changed mine and they leaked even worse.

[owequitit]

make sure you use hondabond on those seals...i changed mine and they leaked even worse.

Really? I didn't use Hondabond on them at all. As with all wet seals, you should coat them in motor oil, but other than that I didn't do anything, and they work just fine.

Maybe you just got the lucky set LOL! I hate when that happens, and Hondabond isn't a bad idea either actually.

[The G-Man]

Cisco (Hondafan81) was taling about regrinds at the meet. The delta 272 regrind was been a real toruble with him, ever since all his headwork. He had a hard time just dialing it in and getting the car to idle. Plus the idle sounds really lumpy now.

[owequitit]

Cisco (Hondafan81) was taling about regrinds at the meet. The delta 272 regrind was been a real toruble with him, ever since all his headwork. He had a hard time just dialing it in and getting the car to idle. Plus the idle sounds really lumpy now.

That isn't necessarily an issue with the construction or integrity of the cam though.

That is pretty much a result of the cam/airflow modifications. Engines run well in such a narrow window of settings, that any time you substantially alter the airflow of an engine, you can expect to do a lot of tuning or reprograming. It hasn't changed since the days of the muscle car.

That is the main reason you have to be very selective about what you choose to run in your engine. Some stuff will make super power, but just isn't feasible for the street, while other stuff will not make the "numbers" but will make for one hell of a punchy ride around town.

A 272 regrind isn't exactly a small cam, and even Delta will tell you that those symptoms are going to be the result of the cam. Tuning will alleviate the symptoms somewhat, but you can't change the airflow at the port with tuning, so there will still be some compromise.

As the airflow needs of the engine are increased, I.E. more displacement, or more RPM's, (as they both increase the need for airflow), the cam will come into its element and run great. That is why a cam that is a good street cam for a 400CID can make a 350 run like crap at lower RPMs. It is all about balance. The total package has to work together, and it has to work in the element for which it was designed.

Supposedly, a 260 regrind is mild enough for even an autotranny CB7, and would perhaps be much more liveable on the street.

This is where VTEC really comes into its element. You can have nice streetable low speed cam lobes, that result in no low RPM driveability, power, emmisions or consumption issues. Then you can have one hell of a nasty mean tire shredding cam profile just waiting in the shadows for the proper RPM and throttle posisition. Since I can get a mild cam to pull to 6-7K, the VTEC cam can be really nasty, because the airflow demand is high enough at those revs to put the big cam right in its element when it kicks in.

More power, no compromise or streetability tradeoff. THAT is what real tuning is all about.

[91accord1]

Thanks for all your comments, and info guys..........I am really looking for a quick but yet reliable driver, I know thats kinda hard to do, but I think the a6 cam will fit me well. I'v heard that regrinds are not the best way to go, that a New street cam is best, but I havent found any for the cb's. So I'm guessing a regrind would be the only way to go for the f22. In the future I would really like to go with the H22 swap. But for now I'm just going to build up my f22.

[owequitit]

Thanks for all your comments, and info guys..........I am really looking for a quick but yet reliable driver, I know thats kinda hard to do, but I think the a6 cam will fit me well. I'v heard that regrinds are not the best way to go, that a New street cam is best, but I havent found any for the cb's. So I'm guessing a regrind would be the only way to go for the f22. In the future I would really like to go with the H22 swap. But for now I'm just going to build up my f22.

I don't think that is a bad decision at all. I have unlocked SO much power from my F22 for less than $300.00 it is unreal. The only other thing that may have added the same kind of improvement for the same price would have to be a nitrous kit. People who ride in the car, that have known it since I bought it 8 years ago, can't believe the difference.

I have had more fun paying just a little bit of money and trying to get more HP that I ever did just ordering stuff and bolting it on. The only uber-expensive part I have that I don't regret getting is my RS*R cat back. The header is decent, but didn't really make much of an improvement. I needed a new cat.

I am seriously considering foregoing the H swap for awhile just so I can keep tweaking the F, or finding another CB and putting the F in there to play with it.

Maybe I will just bolt it into my EG and make a fast car with an F.

Seriously, though. If you do it right, they are serious fun.

[91accord1]

Another option for the F22 would be boost, and honestly, if you want decent power from the F22...that'd be the way to go, and I'v thougt about going that way........I know plenty of poeple with Talons and Eclipses....and the Dsm setup is perfect for the F22......So I might do that.....Cuz I really want to see what I can get out of the F22, Before I go with the H22........