"Bang for my buck"

[koolkoreanked]

I paid $1750 for my swap labor... $2400 for the swap. Honestly, doing the work yourself if you have a garage (or at the very least a paved driveway and a weekend to dedicate to it!) it's not hard. Paying to have such a straightforward swap done is a waste, once you know how easy it really is! I kick myself every time I think about that money. $1750 is a full valvetrain and a set of nice cams!

Anyway, $3500 WILL NOT give you a 500hp F22. I know guys with built H22s that have well over 10 grand in their motors that are making about 400. Over 300hp the power isn't really that great anyway... traction issues become major issues beyond that point. $3500 willl get you a good turbo setup (not a DSM kit) and maybe some midrange rods and pistons... forget about paying for installation in that budget. Then you have to worry about electronics, tuning, and transmission parts (as 85gts stated already, your auto will not like the power made by turbo...) Plan on about $1000 plus your own wrenching for a 5 speed swap.

If you get the full H22 changeover from www.hmotorsonline.com, you're looking at about $2400 shipped (what I paid to NJ from CA, so I assume it's similar elsewhere). If you're in CA and can pick it up yourself, you can knock $200 off of that price. Now, with the full changeover, you get the axles, shift linkage, ECU, and a lot of other things. Then all you need to do is source the pedals, clutch master and slave cylinders, and (not necessary, but useful) a 5 speed gauge cluster. You'll probably also need to find a shifter and 5 speed center console (junkyards are full of our cars these days). For less than $3500, you can have a full 5 speed H22 powered CB7, as long as you do the work yourself! If that $1000 swap price was including the 5 speed conversion... then I would MAYBE say that's a good idea. The 5 speed swap isn't very difficult I'm told, but I hear it's rather frustrating. "pain in the balls" I think was the phrase cp[mike] used when describing it to me one day!

The H22 will give you stock reliability, and with a couple thousand more you can really make it scream (get some headwork done, add a valvetrain, some performance cams... LSD for the transmission... a good header and exhaust) Meanwhile, the extra 60-75hp will hold you over


Turbo isn't bad, but don't expect to make crazy power with it. If you want turbo in a budget, look around here for the DSM setup (search DSM* and you'll find tons of info!) With a 14b turbo and some cheap used parts, you can make over 200hp to the wheels. With a t3/t4 turbo (that's going beyond the basic DSM setup) you can make 250 to the wheels with stock internals... However, unless you build or swap your tranny, you won't be going anywhere fast for very long.



So... again... best bang for your buck? DSM turbo or nitrous (don't discount the juice!). A turbo build WILL prove to be far more expensive than you plan, however. H22 auto is probably the easiest and most reliable.

It's a matter of preference in the end. With careful planning and lots of research, you can make either setup work well for you.

That sums it up right there. Find a shop that will do it for cheaper than that. I personally wouldn't pay anything over $500 for the swap.

[Captain_K]

Well with all of this in mind i plan on keeping my car auto in H22 or F22. Is the H22 auto tranny a lot more stronger than the F22s auto. Is the Auto H22 capable of doing 14's. Also if i build up the F22 instead what kind of work is going to have to be done on the F22 tranny? I have looked at DSM turbos and I almost bought one. I have a DSM manifold, intercooler and a boost controller but then again i might get rid of and go H22. Im ganna look more and still compare the two and good and bad points but i plan on making the decision very soon.

[deevergote]

The H22 and F22 transmissions are really about the same strength wise. An H22 auto won't run 14s in stock form, but with some upgrades it may... I know accordtunerx here on the board ran a 16.1 with his H22 auto (he wasn't happy with that, so I think there was a screwup somewhere...) 15.5 would be my guess for an average stock-ish 1/4 time (stock-ish meaning aftermarket 3" intake and a 2.5" exhaust system... you can't run stock Accord stuff with the H)

How about this... get the 5 speed H22, the full conversion. Use your F22 auto tranny for the time being, and save up for the 5 speed swap later on. When you can afford to complete the transmission swap, you'll already have the H22 tranny to go in there! Paying for an auto H tranny isn't really worth the time, IMO. Definitely not if you're planning on swapping later on!

[Captain_K]

I would like to keep my car auto. Is there any cb7 member wo has done any major performance (like turbo or H22) to there auto and still ran at most 14's

[pat nuben]

my 2 cents

hey im new to workin on honda's, i picked my car up for 700$ and the second day i had it the motor detonated (LONG STORY), but i said fuck it and got the h22, im only 18 and havent ever attempted anything close to a motor swap, but me and couple buddies took our time, bought a manual and read up on the h22 faq on here, and got it done in about 14 hours, most time spent on wiring, afterwards not only was i happy to save the money on install, but the knowledge of every piece in my engine bay is priceless, i learned so much and feels great to drive a car that you did the work too, alot more satisfying than driving a car you paid someone to work on

but whatever do, take your time, read up, and have fun (case of beer helps with frustrating hang ups)

let us know!

[Captain_K]

*Decision*
I think now the honest "Bang for my buck" would be to keep my F because of all my bolt ons that i have and I already have some DSM turbo stuff. Maybe if any swap an H23 head sound pretty cool but who knows that would be later on. I guess I'm ganna decide to keep it is because of the Fact that i like progressing slowly and feeling each ad-on after i put it in. The H22 would be a drastic change. The thing I need to worry about now is getting an idea about the auto tranny Im sure every one who is doing a build up has or will change to a manual but that would be awsome if I keep mine the same.

plus i think i would have a problem with spending the money that I save up.

So what i plan on doing, First a small F22 build up: 272 cam, aluminum pistions(F22parts), H22 crank(maybe have to get some specs on that first) then tranny which by the way i need some good ideas on how to build it up. the turbo project. Garret/airesearch turbo, but mostly DSM stuff.

This is my plan which is ganna take some time so lets see how it turns out

[93EXaesthetic]

here is what you do...and what i plan on doing...

buy an f22b jdm engine 800.....get an h23 tranny........drive around for while....buy some boost 1,200? and bam you got something that can take h22's and was cheaper. and kept it f-series

[Captain_K]

that is cheap even with the H23 tranny auto? can the H23 auto tranny handle boost

[TheTempest]

*THIS IS MY QUESTION TO YOU??
Which would put out more power? H22($3500)?? Im pretty sure the "F22 build up" wouldnt cost $3500 but if i put in that amount of money in the F22 could i beat an H22 accord would i be capable of getting a higher time?

Thanks for reading

No offense. But what H22a swap costs $3500? I did a full swap, from auto to manual even, and it cost about $3,000, which I'm told is still a little on the high side, that includes cost of food/gas and everything.

My personal opinion is since you've already gotten cams for the F22 it wouldn't be a bad idea to turbo that.

[Captain_K]

no the calculation that i did of an overall swap cost, buying the engine and tranny then installation buy a professional. I said the cost of the H would be about $2,500 for engine and tranny w/ECU package and installation would be about $1000. but yes I am now going to keep my F.

*by way i havent bought a cam yet so if anyone has an extra please hit me up with an offer.

[Masamune]

So... again... best bang for your buck? DSM turbo or nitrous (don't discount the juice!).

Yea, don't be too discouraged from going the nitrous route. It just has to be regulated to prevent damage. One qoute really sticks out in my mind about nitrous;

"Nitrous is like a hot chick with an STD, you wanna hit it but are afraid of the consequences"

[Captain_K]

I would love to put a nitrous setup in my car but i will have to ask a few questions that can probably be answered in the nitrous sec. idk i never really though about putting it in, but now that i think about it it wouldnt be that bad. I guess i always though that it was something too major for me to handle................. but I think not.

[xwade01]

Hmm check it out. This dude I know has an Accord. He knows his shit really good. We're not friends but we know of eachother. He had an f22ax back in the day when I first got the accord. He went the boosted route and he was really quite fast. He told me he spent an equivalent of 3200$$ on his whole car set-up. Thats including everything on the exterior part as well. Since he does his own work he saved about 3-4k$ from labor. He had a dsm turbo set-up, but it was upgraded w/ some juice. He had forged pistons, and rods. He also had little headwork done. He port n polished his own head, and got a 272 regrind cam from delta. He was boosted by a 16g at 11-12psi daily. He had a front mount intercooler, w/ all the 2" piping, a knock-off ssqbov, cam gear, a 2g dsm manifold ported, a mild ported IM, and a 2.5" custom catback exhaust. That was his budget for the 3200$. The exterior he had a full body kit, and still does. (Not sure which one) Oh and yeah his nitrous was hooked up threw his gas pedal and engaged at a certain rpm/throttle percentage. He was tuned w/ uberdata/chrome.

Later he dropped his car, and got some new rims. Not sure which tires he ran, but his car fucking flew. I'm pretty sure his car was down to about 13's w/ full interior.(He's go/show)

You guys may think im bullshitting outta my ass, but this guy knows what he is doing. Despite the fact that he's bosnian I still respect all his knowledge and his cb7. But I just thought i'd share that w/ you since ur still undecided. Oh and btw, he sold the set-up and now hes n/a h22. Laterr!

[Captain_K]

Thats awsome similar to the same rout i want to go.

[c900t16]

alright, ive read this entire thread, and in all honesty, an N/a setup is the way to go ONLY if your the type of guy who wants a maintenance free car. From my own experience, and turboing 2 factory cars myself in my drive way with no garage, doing the n/a to turbo setup is really not that hard. If you have some knowledge, even book smarts, you can do it. It s all bolt on stuff for a turbo set up. The only thing you may not be able to do is the exhaust stuff after the downpipe as well as tunning after you turbo. If you want a fast car, go turbo, you will haev so much more to play with, but after you turbo it, expect to dump tons of cash on it when shit breaks, goes wrong or simply just gets out of whack. Tunning a turbo set up can get very expensive, trust me. In addition, make sure you've got someone who can fix and tune your boosted ride. No regular mechanic can fix a boosted f22 when something with tunning goes wrong. It takes someone with very good knowledge to fix a car that isnt supposed to be boosted. If you hire a regular joe, sure he can fix it, but its going to take up a lot of your cash and time if he deosnt know nearly enoguh about turbo's and how they work, especially on an engine that shouldnt have a turbo casue theres nothing for him to look up in books or his computer for example.

Aftermarket everything are your best freinds. Dont cut corners and be cheap to save money. Your going to have to spend money to get a good running car that is somewhat realible. WHen you got boost, expect realibility to go down 50%, you just never know what can happen or when with boost....If you stay under 220whp, i think, given u have proper engine managenment, and tunning and you dont dirve the car to shit eveyday, your car should be somewhat reliable, and not have to check it everyday. Anythign over that, on a car that shoudlnt have a turbo, expect to have problems...lots of them! And expect to do a lot of custom building for internals.

But it all comes down to how much your willing to put up with. A turbo is fun, it's addictive, i knowthis for a fact, but n/a is soo much more reliable. If you liek to get into a car everyday, that works fine, gets you where you need to go with no noises, jitters, problems, smoke etc, go n/a , but if u want a fast car, with a huge range of possible capable power, than go turbo. BUt you will have to willing to spend much more money than you thought you woudl and if reliability will be an issue, stay with the h22 swap. If you want to do the turbo, i can help you out, ive got enough knowledge and know hows with turbos. Do a custom set up rather than buying a kit, they are waaaay too over priced. But all in all, boost is better but ur going to be playing with ur car all the time and it will turn into a love/hate relationship with ur car....good luck!