News from Hasport on K20 -> CB7

[g-wagon]

crazy.

[djcaz_aom]

I say if you have the money, spend it on whatever you want.

- If you are buying to impress others, then so be it. I know for a fact that for the price of that K-series swap, you could be in the 300-600hp range on either an H or an F; fully built bottom end and a head that will out flow any stock K-series head.

-Facts are facts, and when making a comparison, compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.


Real world senario:

- K-series OOOOHH & AWW; 200-250hp
- H-series or F-series Oh okay; 350-450hp (Easily done)
- You choose.

- I'll take okay, and spank OOOOHH & AWW's ass all day.


- Just my $0.02

[ACC0RD22]

Real world senario:

- K-series OOOOHH & AWW; 200-250hp
- H-series or F-series Oh okay; 350-450hp (Easily done)
- You choose.

- I'll take okay, and spank OOOOHH & AWW's ass all day.


- Just my $0.02

real world scenario:

- The K-series responds ridiculously well to modification.
- 200whp N/A is easily achieved with basic bolt ons (I/H/E + Kpro)
- 250whp N/A isnt too far off after that.
- doing any of that N/A in an H/F car would require almost as much money as the K-swap in the first place, and maybe even more.
- to get the numbers all of you guys are talking, a turbo is required, which some people arent prepared for. Honestly, you could make the case that if they arent prepared for a turbo set-up, then how could they be prepared for an unconventional swap like this. And I cant really answer that. because both sides have equally true points.
- uniqueness DOES play a factor for alot people. why would ANYONE try an f20b swap? the h22 has a better powerband, and is cheaper. same swap effort. BUT, its more unique, so alot of people must care about that.

you guys are bashing uniqueness like its nothing to be concerned about, but honestly, if someone came in here with a K20 swapped CB would you be like, ah, could have just gotten an h22 and be done with it, or would you inquire about it and really care about whats being done to make it work? Im not trying to call people hypocritical, more trying to play the devils advocate.

[djcaz_aom]

real world scenario:

- The K-series responds ridiculously well to modification.
- 200whp N/A is easily achieved with basic bolt ons (I/H/E + Kpro)
- 250whp N/A isnt too far off after that.
- doing any of that N/A in an H/F car would require almost as much money as the K-swap in the first place, and maybe even more.
- to get the numbers all of you guys are talking, a turbo is required, which some people arent prepared for. Honestly, you could make the case that if they arent prepared for a turbo set-up, then how could they be prepared for an unconventional swap like this. And I cant really answer that. because both sides have equally true points.
- uniqueness DOES play a factor for alot people. why would ANYONE try an f20b swap? the h22 has a better powerband, and is cheaper. same swap effort. BUT, its more unique, so alot of people must care about that.

you guys are bashing uniqueness like its nothing to be concerned about, but honestly, if someone came in here with a K20 swapped CB would you be like, ah, could have just gotten an h22 and be done with it, or would you inquire about it and really care about whats being done to make it work? Im not trying to call people hypocritical, more trying to play the devils advocate.

SAME MONEY for the SAME MONEY the H & F-series will out perfom a K-series. Hence, for the person that has little of it, the H/F route is the way to go.

Originally Posted by djcaz_aom "I say if you have the money, spend it on whatever you want."

I mean exactly that. I wasn't bashing on the UNIQUENESS of the swap, and to some people, it doen't matter what others think. I simply gave my opinion on said swap and pointed out a few things along the way.

If you are going to BOLT ON parts to a K-series, then you just upped the price; ie. more money into an H/F.

I was never talking about cheaper; "apples to apples; oranges to oranges"; just plain ol' Best Bang for the SAME Buck.

[ACC0RD22]

ok, so, say you buy a theoretical Hasport swap kit, that theoretically costs 1000 dollars with a custom header, intake, mounts, wiring, and Kpro. you know, just basic stuff to get it running. a K20a can be had for around 4000 dollars, if youre not looking for the JDM type-R K20a. a K20/K24 hybrid could be had for even less.

are you seriously telling me that you can have a fully functioning H22a Turbo that will make 350-450 hp for that price? I have heard of set-ups being built for around 5000 dollars, but I cannot beleive that you could get an h22a, sleeve it, and get a full turbo set-up that will run as reliably as a k20 with bolt-on for that price. you have to consider ALL the angles, not just power production.

[djcaz_aom]

Not an H, an F. An H you have to pay for, the car comes with an F; and I will agree with you on looking at all the angles.

[ACC0RD22]

but now were not comparing apples with apples. we just arent.

and, have you priced out a fully built F? I have a feeling that between sleeving the block, forged pistons and rods, and good turbo stuff (not DSM), it would STILL cost around 4k to get 400hp. think about it,

1k for sleeving
300 for pistons
500 for rods
500 for a good manifold
500-1000 for a good turbo
100 for wastegate
200 for various piping
400 for bigger exhaust
500 for tuning time and accessories.

thats 4100-4600 dollars, and I personally feel that those prices are fairly reasonable, or even a little on the low side.

The H/F world isnt really all that cheap, because making horsepower, in any form, is expensive. plus, since youre touching the internals of the engine, and putting more stress on it, it wont last as long. a swapped K with bolt ons, will last as long as a stock K.

[djcaz_aom]

Even then you would still have more for the same money. Even if you only made 350hp. Reliably.

All in all if you have the money, do with it as you please.

[m-tec93accord]

i think the REAL reason everyone is bashing on whether it would the SAME BANG FOR THE SAME BUCK is b/c everyone is so comfortable w/the H22 already. no ones here owns a cb7 k20 or k24 so no one can really say the hseries will outperform it or vice versa.

yea, i do see that the h22 MIGHT(i use that word lossely)outperform the kseries due to being cost effective but how bout some numbers, everyone likes numbers

H22:
motor: 750-1500(depending on condition, and this is tranny, ecu, wiring harness)
labor: 500-1200 depending out whether u do it yourself or a shop
aftermarket support: 2000-4000 from turbo to NA and what numbers you want
age: this is basically due to the h is more older than the other but still has support, and a hell of it




K20-24
motor: 1000-5000(also depending on condition and USDM to JDM)
labor: 500-1500
aftermarket support: 1000-8000 (also endless but more pricey than the other)
age: out with the old, in with the new. since this is honda new MOTOR OF MOTORS, more digging, tech, and cracking will yield more #'s out of it versus the #'s people have already extracted from the H

already you can see that the kseries will be a little more to much more than the hseries so lets have a budget:

POCKET: 5000(and i'm goin cheap for parts and your doing this yourself, no shop input, also using same parts NA and turbo)

H:
motor-750 jdm
NA: high comp piston(750), rods(500) port n polish(500), valvetrain upgrade(450), polish crank or knife-edge(not sure of this one but guess about 1000), ITB(400)= this should net you anywhere to about 250-300whp(input here, havent done NA setups too much but google's a lifesaver)= so in all this should come to 4350 with 650 for some spray or whatever else i missed

TURBO:
motor-750 jdm
BOOST: low comp piston(750), rods(500), everyone's fav turbo T3/T4(variation of trim, housings and such and yes i know they will yield diff numbers)(1500), upgrade valvetrain(500), wastegate(200), BOV(150 this really varies), manifold(600), piping(300). so this one should come to 4500 with 500 leftover for whatever i missed so w/this setup, u should net between 350-450whp(got this info from our boards plus google)

since i dont want to retype all that stuff, same stuff on k

K20-24
the fastest NA i've seen is from skunk for about 315(got this from superstreet, a hell of a lot more R&D went into that) so i'll say about 275 for the average joe, also add in the kit from hasport so look at another 1500

TURBO:
well shit, if i read this correctly, on clubrsx.com, if you put the same amount of money as above, on a decent turbo from FULLRACE then get your motor built w/the same amount as above, i'm see'n about 400-600whp in their forum. lookin up accordsir h22 in his cb7, i think he has the most whp to date(correct me if i'm wrong), and he's looking at somewhere in the 410-430 range(got this from our boards, plus looking at this thread, he just got some more stuff)

so........all in all, it looks like the kseries will be the most bang for the most ECONOMICAL buck, the only problem i see with the K is the kit to putt the damn thing in our cars, but with that out of the way(AS FAR AS I'VE RESEARCHED BUT WE ALL KNOW HOW GOOD MY RESEARCH IS ), ALL A GO FOR K

ALSO THIS WAS A GUESS-TIMATION, SO IF I'M WRONG ON SOME OF THE NUMBERS THEN I'LL CHANGE EM, BUT MOST CAME FROM GOOGLE, CLUBRSX, SKUNK2, HT, AND US

[mondojackal]

but now were not comparing apples with apples. we just arent.

and, have you priced out a fully built F? I have a feeling that between sleeving the block, forged pistons and rods, and good turbo stuff (not DSM), it would STILL cost around 4k to get 400hp. think about it,

1k for sleeving
300 for pistons
500 for rods
500 for a good manifold
500-1000 for a good turbo
100 for wastegate
200 for various piping
400 for bigger exhaust
500 for tuning time and accessories.

thats 4100-4600 dollars, and I personally feel that those prices are fairly reasonable, or even a little on the low side.

The H/F world isnt really all that cheap, because making horsepower, in any form, is expensive. plus, since youre touching the internals of the engine, and putting more stress on it, it wont last as long. a swapped K with bolt ons, will last as long as a stock K.

so what are you trying to "prove"?? all you have said is that what the other guy said was correct.. you said that it would be about $5k for a k20 swap, with mods. so say 230whp. for that same $5k, as you just said, you could get a sleeved, pistoned, and rodded bulletproof f22 with a turbo. and that is going to make a lot more than 230whp, and the torque...don't even bother saying anything. that same 230whp k20 will have a piddling amount of torque when compared with the aforementioned f22 turbo build.

so yeah, back to MY question...what were you trying to "prove"??

[gloryaccordy]

^^^Meh...I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt and say it's an even 5,000 for a fully built F, although 300whp on a stock block H22 isn't at all unreasonable...new OEM pistons and F22 rods = low enough compression and new ringlands. Nobody blows up stock blocks at reasonable amounts of boost...

And in any case, $5,000 is peanuts compared to a K20A swap into a CB7. The motor alone is $4000 at least, and to get it to where a built H22A would be would cost a shitload of money.

I like the K a lot but financially speaking it doesn't have a leg to stand on. If you can justify spending 10K on the whole swap, more power to you...but honestly this is one of those times when going with what works just makes sense.

[m-tec93accord]

so what are you trying to "prove"?? all you have said is that what the other guy said was correct.. you said that it would be about $5k for a k20 swap, with mods. so say 230whp. for that same $5k, as you just said, you could get a sleeved, pistoned, and rodded bulletproof f22 with a turbo. and that is going to make a lot more than 230whp, and the torque...don't even bother saying anything. that same 230whp k20 will have a piddling amount of torque when compared with the aforementioned f22 turbo build.

so yeah, back to MY question...what were you trying to "prove"??

maybe i shoulda clarified that, whether NA or TURBO, the KSERIES(minus the kit to put it in) will get better performance, 5K for NA on both will prolly yield the same numbers, but TURBO thats a diff story

[m-tec93accord]

^^^Meh...I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt and say it's an even 5,000 for a fully built F, although 300whp on a stock block H22 isn't at all unreasonable...new OEM pistons and F22 rods = low enough compression and new ringlands. Nobody blows up stock blocks at reasonable amounts of boost...

And in any case, $5,000 is peanuts compared to a K20A swap into a CB7. The motor alone is $4000 at least, and to get it to where a built H22A would be would cost a shitload of money.

I like the K a lot but financially speaking it doesn't have a leg to stand on. If you can justify spending 10K on the whole swap, more power to you...but honestly this is one of those times when going with what works just makes sense.

yea i was just comparing same money into both motors, but hell i'll agree w/u anyday, i'd rather put 5k into my F22 then even get a h22, fuck the K20-24 also

[Maple50175]

why would u want a k20/>

[djcaz_aom]

you said that it would be about $5k for a k20 swap, with mods. so say 230whp. for that same $5k, as you just said, you could get a sleeved, pistoned, and rodded bulletproof f22 with a turbo. and that is going to make a lot more than 230whp, and the torque...don't even bother saying anything. that same 230whp k20 will have a piddling amount of torque when compared with the aforementioned f22 turbo build.

That's all I was trying to say.