Swap chronicles: Transmission, gear swap, LSD, clutch and flywheel

[marcusv8thunder]

So have you got the gearing you desired?

The gap from changing from 4th to 5th is not too long? Whats you cruising RPM at say 60mph in 5th now?

[Tishock]

Yes and no.

My original goal was to have the more aggressive gearing of the h23, the fuel economy of the f22 and have power to both wheels with the lsd. So yes I did obtain my desired goals. The h23 1-4 ratios wake up the car with out being too aggressive. The f22 5th ratio, makes the car feel like I still have my old fuel friendly tranny. The lsd transfers power to both wheels which makes the car a lot more fun to drive when launching and cornering.

5th gear cruising RPMs on 215.45.17

60mph at 2500rpm
70mph at 2900rpm
80mph at 3300rpm


This car is my DD 1st and performance car 2nd. I drive about 60+ fwy miles a day 7 days a week, so fuel economy is very important to me and I only participate in a few autox/drag events in a given year. And you'll never go fast enough to go in to 5th at autox or drag events.

But If your goal is performance 1st, then the f22 5th ratio swap is a Downgrade, not an Upgrade. The drop is noticeable, not so much that the car is almost useless until it revs up on the streets, but the drop is enough that if used on a track you would be VERY annoyed by the drop.

And No, because now my goals have changed

I'm going to buy a new DD next year, so fuel economy will no longer be a necessity for my CB. And now that I've driven the car over 2300 miles on this set up. I see that I need to make big changes sometime late next year to a modified h22 tranny for track use. This time I plan to use carbon synchros, hardened sleeves, new lsd, new FD and a combination of ratios for better track performance. I'll start a new Chronicles post when I start on that project. But all of this after I finally get my FD running again.

[Tishock]

QUICK UPDATE: 2300 miles and still running strong.

The deal I had to pick up a cheap m2y4 fell through a couple weeks back. So I'm still looking for an h22 tranny. Also, I been really busy at work and haven't had a chance to update this post but I will try my best to get it done in January.

[Tishock]

UPDATE: Car has been out of commission for about 2 months now

Throw out bearing failure.

My fault.... When it came time to install the new throw out bearing I realized I forgot to order a new OEM bearing. I had the bearing that came with the kit but I never planned to use it. Unfortunately I really needed my car running again for work, so at that moment I decided to go forward and use the one from the kit.

Everything was running really well. Then around the beginning of January the car was starting to get a little difficult to shift especially when it was cold. Also the clutch pedal engagement started to creep closer to the bottom of the clutch pedal throw. So I went through my diagnostic checks hoping it wasn't something that required me to remove the tranny again. Well, the last thing I did was remove the shift fork rubber cover and notice the spring had detached from the fork. I next used my cheap HF digital inspection camera and could see that the bearing had separated in to 2 pieces. Sadly there is also some wear on the clutch springs from the bearing, which I hope isn't too bad.

So the tranny will have to come out again, but I haven't had time to work on the car since, because of work (2 jobs). I ended up buying another car soon after the trouble began and I've finally set aside some time here and there this month to resolve this.

Wish me luck that nothing else was damaged.

Looking for the silver lining in this. At least I can take my time to add many other parts while its down.

[Tishock]

Forgot to update this because I had a below the knee amputation in April. So my cars haven't been a priority of mine. I'm doing fine now.

So.....the car has been running normally for quite sometime. I'm embarrassed to admit that it wasn't a bearing failure . I was mistaken by what I saw with the inspection camera....





I used ARP Clutch Plate bolts (part# 108-2201) in this project.

ARP instructions

1. Apply ARP Ultra-Torque® to fastener threads and the underhead of the bolt.
2. Install fastener hand tight.
3. Use torque wrench to install fastener to the torque value 24 ft/lbs (stock bolts is 19ft/lbs)

So I followed the ARP instructions and guess what? The bolts backed out. I found it odd that I was not to use loctite on the pressure plate bolt threads. So I re-torqued them to 24 ft/lbs, this time with loctite on the threads and ARP Ultra-Torque on the bolt head. Viola, everything shifts smoothly again.

The ARP instruction for the flywheel bolts do instruct you to use loctite and ARP Ultra-Torque under the bolt head. The flywheel bolts are fine by the way.


I ended up finding the info below after I had already removed the tranny from the car.


Quick clutch diagnostic tip:

If the clutch fork is moving back and forth as normally when pressing the clutch pedal. Raise the car, so that both front wheels are off the ground. Now start the car in neutral. The wheels will spin on their own, but very very slowly. If they're spinning quickly, then the issue is your clutch and not the hydraulics.

To check the pressure plate bolts remove the starter and use a deep offset wrench or wobble socket to check them. The starter hole wont give you a straight shot to the bolts. You can turn the engine by using a ratchet on the crank bolt (counter clock wise). This way you can check all the pressure bolts. Remember to torque them in a star pattern.

[wildBill83]

So the problem was hydraulic?

Knee amputation?:eek:

[Tishock]

Check out what a friend is picking up for me today....

It took a while but I finally found a really really cheap h22 transmission for me to measure the 5th ratios and eventually rebuild. Like I mentioned before the H2U5 F22 5th ratios (and several others) can be used to swap in to a M2S4 H23 transmission with out any modifications. And I believe It maybe be possible to use the H2A5 F22 5th ratios as direct replacements for the M2Y4 H22 transmission with out any modifications. Hopefully we can put this question to bed for everyone.





Not sure when but I'm going to redo the videos at the beginning of this thread. They will be fewer and overall shorter videos . I'm also thinking of making a new thread with me rebuilding the M2Y4 with several upgraded goodies from Synchrotech. There is already a DIY rebuild thread on Preludezone.com for the M2Y4 but I plan to video it all.

http://www.preludezone.com/5th-gen-h...-pictures.html

wildBill83 So the problem was hydraulic?

Knee amputation?:eek:

No, the clutch pressure plate ARP bolts got loose.

[Jarrett]

Have you found a method for determining the difference between the .685 and .705 5th gear assemblies? I bought a 5th gear from a member on this site for my M2F4 build but I'm not sure which it is. If it's a .705 I'll just toss it. Any tips?

[Tishock]

Its actually really easy.

Counter Shaft teeth count divided by the Main Shaft teeth count

So for the f22 5th ratios its

24 divided by 35 = .685

If it is a .705 set please dont throw it away. I would like to get a chance to measure the sets dimensions.

[Jarrett]

Oh, no crap huh. The same way you figure any gear ratio. I'm an idiot. Thanks.

[Tishock]

Oh, no crap huh. The same way you figure any gear ratio. I'm an idiot. Thanks.

Yeah, I was surprised you asked. But it's cool, we're all entitled to a brain fart every once in a while. Besides, I'm sure there were a few that didn't know.

[Tishock]

Oh well....


I started degreasing the tranny this morning and after the first rinse I found JB Weld covering a crack next to the Sealing Bolt. Then on the bench I couldn't get it into some gears. Then the Snap ring didn't want to completely release the Bearing holding the Counter Shaft. At this point I knew I was really screwed.

I took a chance this would have intact 5th gear ratios and best case scenario that this M2Y4 would be rebuildable. You get what you paid for . That's $75 down the drain. My friend didn't check that it would go into each gear before buying it for me like he said he would. "Sorry man I forgot" is what he told me this morning.

The main measurement we need is the height which hopefully I can still measure. If possible I'll post the measurement when I'm done in a little bit.

[H311RA151N]

Oh well....


I started degreasing the tranny this morning and after the first rinse I found JB Weld covering a crack next to the Sealing Bolt. Then on the bench I couldn't get it into some gears. Then the Snap ring didn't want to completely release the Bearing holding the Counter Shaft. At this point I knew I was really screwed.

I took a chance this would have intact 5th gear ratios and best case scenario that this M2Y4 would be rebuildable. You get what you paid for . That's $75 down the drain. My friend didn't check that it would go into each gear before buying it for me like he said he would. "Sorry man I forgot" is what he told me this morning.

The main measurement we need is the height which hopefully I can still measure. If possible I'll post the measurement when I'm done in a little bit.

Holy shit man...

[Tishock]

Holy shit man...

I know right! You notice that the CS 5th gear is so worn down that it has a smooth finish. You can see the light glisten off it. Can you imagine the noises this thing was making?

---------

Ok, so here we are.

These gear ratios are obviously mangled, so measurements maybe slightly off.

These are Measurement # 2 on the chart I posted a while ago.

MS = Main Shaft
CS = Counter Shaft

M2Y4 MS 31.63 - CS 18.48

H2A5 MS 31.46 - CS 20.93

H2U5 MS 31.40 - CS 22.90


Sorry guys, even with the damage we can see that the shorter CS gear from the H2A5 f22 transmission is still too tall to be a direct replacement. You still need to shave off approximately 2mm of material from a H2A5 CS gear and about 4mm from a H2U5 CS gear.

[Flip-Eye]

Wow that thing is mangled!