It's Alive.......h22a/f22a1

[WiKKeDV16]

umm look at my sig... NUFF SAID.. lol.. hahaah.. shut up teckert.. u have no idea what ur talking about

[ACC0RD22]

http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=776837&page=1

[shadetreecustom]

thats great wish id known about that before hand.............would have been a nice reference i talked to a couple people that had done the f22b1 but no one told me about this thanks for posting it

[93accordEX]

ok this post is not to knock you or anyone else who wants to do this, but I just want to get some information out there because I see way too many people jumping on this bandwagon lately possibly due to misinformation. My first point is the cost issue, because I assume that is what attracts most people to this. It sounds like you can have something comparable to an h22 for around $300 from your post. First you do not have an h22 tranny, which is a big part of a complete swap... They sell for 700+... You can usually get an h22 by itself for around a grand. My next issue is how you found all this for 300-350

things you need.....
h22 head (complete intake manifold,distributer......and so on)
ecu for h22
h22 timing gear
h22 water pump gear
h22 exhaust manifold
custom hard water pipe (have heard you can use the h23 therm housing and f22a1 hard water pipe but not sure)
h22 timing belt
f23 head gasket
h22 intake gasket.......hell just get all the gaskets for the H except for the head
3 peices of wire about 5 foot long and 2 plugs for the VTEC solinoid and pressure switch

I'm not saying its completely impossible, however I do doubt it. In most cases it would be very hard to find the head alone for that price. Anyways if you somehow did manage to get it all for that cheap I think you can agree that for the average person it will cost around double that. Then there are a few little things that people may or may not be able to do themselves like the water pump gear and water pipe which can add up. Also you had to buy another block because you spun a bearing at 7500 rpms... I think that says something right there. Obviously an f22 was not designed to rev that high. At least with a h23 block you are trading off your worse rod/stroke ratio for more size. Another thing is compression. Since the h22 has a larger bore, the head combustion chamber is also bigger, making the compression even lower, less than 8.5:1. Also I honestly am not sure if that would make for headgasket sealing issues or any other issues in the long run. So yea that is more then 2 points less then a jdm h22. I think there was more I wanted to write but I don't even remember anymore, so for the positives (yes they exist ) I do think this has one main benefit and that is for boost. You have a cheap low compression (although possibly a little too low for some) iron sleeved block. Even if it blows it will be cheap to replace after the first one. Also some people like the longer gearing of the tranny with boost, which i personally disagree with but wont go there now. So yea that basically sums it up, its a good idea for boost, probably going to cost a lot more for the average person then most people seem to be claiming, and honestly for an all motor application I would think its really not that great, but I haven't driven one or seen a dyno of one.

[shadetreecustom]

ok fellows i got lucky i picked up the h22,ecu,and tranny for 300 now there was a reason i got it so cheap the head was over here the block was over there and every thing else was in about five or six boxes i just happened to be lucky and find someone who got in over there head and tried to rebuild it and didnt know what they were doing,believe me i have pictures of it,he needed money so he got rid of it i could have got the whole car for 500 but didnt want the lude you cant be scared to go ask someone about something if you see something go ask about it sometimes you can find a gold mine in someones back yard i travel alot with my job so yea i see a lot of stuff i got a buddy a b18 for 200 the stuff is out there you just gotta find it and yea i spent between 300-350 on my project but its your choice to beleive it or not and the plan is to boost i had a dsm set up that i was going to put on the f before the head gasket blew and warped the head so i said what the hell lets put the h head on it and did a little research and started comparing parts see i also have a f22b1 thay i picked up for 15 dollars because of the hole in the block but the head is good so i also seem to collect junk learn from it and throw it away
and no i didnt have to buy another block nor crank i was lucky again with it yes it could have chewed the crank up but it didnt and the difference between an f22 and an h23 is the bore(and it only 2mm) they share the same crank and rods there for giving you the same stroke and now with the new bearings im reving between 7200 -7500 with no problems the motor was a little low in oil and had 160,000 miles on it when it spun i know thats not a lot but it sent it into shock im sure but its fine now and i also never said it was comparable to an h22 i said it was very stong and loaded with torque ........and i will try to get it on the dyno as soon as possible

[H23Accord]

Plus the costs involved can be brought down based on "who you know." I was able to get a lot of my parts cheaper due to who I knew weather it be friends or whoever.

Also, I do remember reading that link accord22 posted above when the guy first came out with that. It further prompted me to knowing that it was possible to create such an animal.

[WiKKeDV16]

ok this post is not to knock you or anyone else who wants to do this, but I just want to get some information out there because I see way too many people jumping on this bandwagon lately possibly due to misinformation. My first point is the cost issue, because I assume that is what attracts most people to this. It sounds like you can have something comparable to an h22 for around $300 from your post. First you do not have an h22 tranny, which is a big part of a complete swap... They sell for 700+... You can usually get an h22 by itself for around a grand. My next issue is how you found all this for 300-350



I'm not saying its completely impossible, however I do doubt it. In most cases it would be very hard to find the head alone for that price.

---- I can agree with you there.. i myself however got a FULL h22a motor (with a quarter size hole in the block) for 250... now.. that basiclly set everything in my lap to do it.. timing gear.. old water pump... head.. blah blah blah blah----- so it IS a matter of being patient and finding a good deal----

Anyways if you somehow did manage to get it all for that cheap I think you can agree that for the average person it will cost around double that. Then there are a few little things that people may or may not be able to do themselves like the water pump gear and water pipe which can add up.

---- How does this add up?? its like saying ppl are too stupid to go out and buy a pulley puller.. or.. getting a hacksaw and being creative.. and imaginative.. thats the entire point u have to be to make this successful----

Also you had to buy another block because you spun a bearing at 7500 rpms... I think that says something right there.

---- No offense to shadetreecustom but.. 7,500rpm on a stock block is just fucking retarded.. maybe a f20a block which has a lower stroke of 88m but meh.. regardless.. this has nothing to do with the swap thats something he desided to do-----

Obviously an f22 was not designed to rev that high. At least with a h23 block you are trading off your worse rod/stroke ratio for more size. Another thing is compression. Since the h22 has a larger bore, the head combustion chamber is also bigger, making the compression even lower, less than 8.5:1. Also I honestly am not sure if that would make for headgasket sealing issues or any other issues in the long run.


---- The compression being lower can be solved by 2 options.. decking the block (prelittelude did this to his hybrid 30 thousanths and raised his compresion to 9:1) or milling the head.. i wouldnt touch the head personally cant go back on the head the block u can just get another one

as for headgasket sealling issues.. there is none.. the f22a bore is 85mm with a service limit of 86mm.. the f23a headgasket used is 86mm although the f23a in itself is 87mm bore.. so u are meeting halfway using this gasket.. this is the main reason why its used------


So yea that is more then 2 points less then a jdm h22. I think there was more I wanted to write but I don't even remember anymore, so for the positives (yes they exist ) I do think this has one main benefit and that is for boost. You have a cheap low compression (although possibly a little too low for some) iron sleeved block. Even if it blows it will be cheap to replace after the first one. Also some people like the longer gearing of the tranny with boost, which i personally disagree with but wont go there now. So yea that basically sums it up, its a good idea for boost, probably going to cost a lot more for the average person then most people seem to be claiming, and honestly for an all motor application I would think its really not that great, but I haven't driven one or seen a dyno of one

----- that is the trade off right there.. im not here to say the hybrid will produce h22a numbers.. but.. there is power there.. in going from 90.7mm stroke to 95mm stroke.. u do gain some torque.. which is why most who have it (3 that i know of so far) claim its torquey as hell.. its because of that.. as for n/a setup.. well pirates G23 speaks for itselfs.. i mean.. 183whp and it was pretty inexpensive.. of coure he knew ppl and where to go.. but regardless.. 183whp and 179?? tq i believe.. out of a non vtec hybrid is pretty impressive.. im sure if he applied his setup to a f22a/h22a the numbers would be pretty surprising as well.. just a thought..-----


C-los
.

me.. fucking shit.. since i wrote in ur quote it says message is too short..
damn these limits lol

[shadetreecustom]

---- No offense to shadetreecustom but.. 7,500rpm on a stock block is just fucking retarded..

none taken but that was an accident they do happen and im glad i do have some of you on my side.....to be completly honest i did it just because someone said it couldnt be done and i had the head ...........and to be completly honest now im starting to wish i never posted this......i like eye candy and thats what this is,eyecandy i dont want to be the fastest sure i want to be kwik but i like being different and that i know of theres not a sole around me in my area that has this i know some others have done this but not many as far as i know ....................well as for now ive slap forgot what else i was gonna say ...........i think ill go drive my frank....... later

[h22sparkle]

they get the parts for cheap because they are in the middle of nowhere literally. Me on the other hand instead of doin all of that i rather just get a swap and have it as reliable as ever.

[shadetreecustom]

first off i did it because i can ,and boosted h22 come on we all know if you boost it right out the gate whats gonna happen ...........that high of compression is gonna leave you on the side of the road if you make it out of the shop so theres more money now lets talk about cams ........more money rods , bearings the list could go on if i blow mine after i get the boost on it im out maybe 200 for another F22A1 that ill frank again just because i can and as far as knowing whats going on ive been doing this all my life i know whats going on when iwas 19 i had a trans am that was putting 525hp to the ground that i built in my moms kitchen floor ,so in closing this reply yes im in the middle of boones ville but thats not why the parts are cheap i got my deal on my H i got it because of a dummy that thought he would do it the RIGHT way and could do it the RIGHT way couldnt and i wasnt scared to ask if he would sell it and i like tio do stuff my self rather than pay someone hence the name shadetreecustoms

[h22sparkle]

Carolina is boonesville aint shit out there but trees and bushes and crickets and the crickets left town. But anyways you can do a h22 right honestly i rather not boost an f22 with high miles sure its 200 you may be out of but you can blow it again and again and again. Besides ive seen so many h22's boosted and not blow up its not even funny and the thing about it is that amazes me is that its all in the tuning you can boost yours and blow it up that easy its about tuning. I rather pay someone to have it done right if i dont have the machinery to do so its that easier. And besides what you make on high boost is what i make on low boost and i can still move high up and m head flows better on the engine so lets not get technical here

[H23Accord]

none taken but that was an accident they do happen and im glad i do have some of you on my side.....to be completly honest i did it just because someone said it couldnt be done and i had the head ...........and to be completly honest now im starting to wish i never posted this......i like eye candy and thats what this is,eyecandy i dont want to be the fastest sure i want to be kwik but i like being different and that i know of theres not a sole around me in my area that has this i know some others have done this but not many as far as i know ....................well as for now ive slap forgot what else i was gonna say ...........i think ill go drive my frank....... later

Awesome...he said I am done with you guys, I am gonna go drive my frank now...peace out!

Yes tuning is everything. But his concept is fantastic and cheap and it gives him what he needs and he can make it as reliable as he wants it. If he feels he pushed the envelope than he can always get another block for cheap. It is his Frankenstein creation to do with as he wants. It is rare, it is cheap, and bottom line...ignorance is bliss.

[shadetreecustom]

this is not to knock the H22 but for those who have never seen what can happen to a stock h22 with boost here the result....................................





just a little food for thought ......this was at 12psi from a t25 ......so just like a spun bearing shit can happen to a stock h22 that hasnt been craked open and done RIGHT it had a 10.6:1 c/r stock

[phatdoughnut]

this is not to knock the H22 but for those who have never seen what can happen to a stock h22 with boost here the result....................................





just a little food for thought ......this was at 12psi from a t25 ......so just like a spun bearing shit can happen to a stock h22 that hasnt been craked open and dont RIGHT it had a 10.6:1 c/r stock

not just h22s, shit happens to anything if you dont take care of it. what about the balancer shaft seal retainer? how many people knew about that before Mr. Honda came along? NO ONE!

eh still doesnt beat mine and jasons free h22s..

[shadetreecustom]

not just h22s, shit happens to anything if you dont take care of it.

AMEN............that was just a point to anyone who put my thoughts and work down