Bang for buck swap/motor build

[SleepyG]

My dream was to grab an H23 VTEC w/ manual LSD tranny.

Was hoping to just do a head build on the H and try to achieve 210-230WHP if possible. In the end it would cost quite a bit.

I understand I may be abled to make my WHP goal from a SOHC motor possibly built from JY parts lol.

So what should I be looking into?

One thought so far is an F23a1 bottom w/ F22a6 head. I would put new pistons and rods in the block keeping CR neutral for future boost. Slap an a4 header on and get it to run the best I can until I build the head and get the turbo stuff together.

You CB7 guys know these motors pretty well so what other options do you guys have for me?

Again I would like 230WHP+ and this is going to be a street car and lapping/track car too so mid range power is what I am after.

Not spending madd cash is my biggest issue. If anything I would rather spend my dough on internals and turbo stuff over the actual motor itself.

[trouty]

the best bang for your buck depends on what kind of bang you want. the cost of a 200hp H22 swap closely rivals properly turbocharging your car.

[deevergote]

Why bother with the 2.3L block?

Your horsepower goals can be made on a stock block with a well designed and well tuned turbo system. Don't waste your money on a new engine.

[SleepyG]

Why bother with the 2.3L block?

Your horsepower goals can be made on a stock block with a well designed and well tuned turbo system. Don't waste your money on a new engine.

Well you guys all say the F22b2 head flows like shyt. I want something thats worthy of a port/polish etc.

So you think I should stick with what I got and spend the money boosting it properly?

I may be willing to buy pistons and rods but I don't want to have to re-sleeve it. 12-15 psi would be nice.

BTW Deeve that sig is awsome!

[deevergote]

Slap a quality turbo on your F22B1 and tune it carefully, and 210-230whp will be easily attainable. You won't even need to modify the head.

The B1 head does flow like shit, but the F22B1 is still capable of making plenty of power with turbo. it's N/A performance that it's terrible for. You can make more power than you'll ever need on a street car with a properly built and boosted F22B1.

Take the money you WOULD put into building another engine, and spend that on a QUALITY turbo setup. No cheap Chinese shit from ebay. No used junkyard garbage. At the very least, get a kit from Treadstone ($1800 for all brand new parts, decent stuff.)

Take the money you WOULD put into building the head, and put it into new internals.



Assuming you get the Treadstone kit, decent forged internals, a chipped P28 for tuning, and a proper professioal dyno tune... Expect to spend roughly $5000, give or take. I'd say you could make 350whp easily after all of that.

For 210-230... stick with the stock internals. Get a good setup, and a good tune, and it'll last a while. The ringlands will most likely blow, as long as everything else is good... then you rebuild with stronger stuff.

[Nocture]

Why bother with the 2.3L block?

Your horsepower goals can be made on a stock block with a well designed and well tuned turbo system. Don't waste your money on a new engine.

agree

Well you guys all say the F22b2 head flows like shyt. I want something thats worthy of a port/polish etc.

So you think I should stick with what I got and spend the money boosting it properly?

I may be willing to buy pistons and rods but I don't want to have to re-sleeve it. 12-15 psi would be nice.

BTW Deeve that sig is awsome!

Don't want to resleeve, stay F.

[deevergote]

FRM sleeves are better than stock iron sleeves... the piston selection is just limited. People don't seem to understand that. FRM sleeves are stronger, lighter, and dissipate heat better.

But there's no reason to swap the engine at all for the intended goals.

[wed3k]

most sleeves are worn in the h22's on the market just due to mileage and age.

sleeving is pretty much bulletproof.

[Ghetto_CB7]

Bang for the Buck

In all honesty, the answer to the question lies with your skills...

If you need 230 hp but have no skills in building, then I think a low boost h23 is the best option.

If you have reasonable skills a built and slightly more boot f series is the way to go.

If you are really skilled I would honestly say that for the money the cheapest way to get that is to go get a J32 type S and drop it in there.

The j series is still cheap as hell, and it would just require a lot of patience and well creativity to get everything working. With that said I honestly think It would be the cheapest option for 230 whp. Only thing I don't know about is the clearance with our hood and the ground, but we have more then civics,and they get them to fit.... sort of LOL

[SleepyG]

In all honesty, the answer to the question lies with your skills...

If you need 230 hp but have no skills in building, then I think a low boost h23 is the best option.

If you have reasonable skills a built and slightly more boot f series is the way to go.

If you are really skilled I would honestly say that for the money the cheapest way to get that is to go get a J32 type S and drop it in there.

The j series is still cheap as hell, and it would just require a lot of patience and well creativity to get everything working. With that said I honestly think It would be the cheapest option for 230 whp. Only thing I don't know about is the clearance with our hood and the ground, but we have more then civics,and they get them to fit.... sort of LOL

Forget a J32, too much to worrie about. I like 4 bangers more anyways.

H23 I can get for pretty cheap with low km's so thats interesting. It would be nice because I could just swap it in and have the 170hp to play with until I get to work on boost.

So theres nothing wrong with boosting an FRM sleeved block? What would I have to do to get 12-15psi out of it?

The reason I prefer to start on another motor is because mine has 230k km's on it so I am sure the sleeves and internals on a much lower km motor are better than mine are.

I can get a JDM F23 for $350 with 40k on it so I originally though boosting that would be a good way to go until I got scared by all you guys saying the heads flow poorly. Apparently with boost head flow isnt such an issue says Deeve the GOD.

[deevergote]

160hp.

Honestly, what's the point of a swap? For what it would cost you to swap in a new engine, you could rebuild your F22A with forged internals. Forged internals on stock sleeves would be capable of far more power than you're looking to make, and be pretty damn reliable (assuming everything is done carefully and properly, and your parts are chosen well.)

If your engine is in decent condition, you're better off using that than trusting a stock engine with an unknown history. A 70km JDM F23 was probably sitting in a salvage yard since 2001 in Japan, before getting shipped to North America. That, or it was shipped to Australia or New Zealand, where it was driven much the same as engines here are... and then sold as a "JDM" engine with low KM because nobody will ever know the difference! Honestly, it'd be better if it was driven regularly, rather than sitting on a shelf somewhere rotting.

Head flow is still an issue with boost... just not when it comes to attaining your power goals.

[Ghetto_CB7]

High mileage motors

Actually high mileage motors are better to rebuild.

Essentially when a block is cast there are always stress fields and dislocations present in the metal, now over time with enough heat and stress the dislocations essentially get stuck on one another and increase the strength of the metal.

Muscle car guys have been doing this for years, in all honesty your engine block gets stronger with mileage, unless you throw a rod into it...

[SleepyG]

Just a reminder, I have a F22b2 and this is a 5th gen.

So good forged internals and a carefully designed quality turbo set up are all you think I would need to reach my goal?

Given that I am OBD-II, what limitations does that give me?

[deevergote]

OBD2 can give you some tuning limitations. You could convert to OBD1 and tune like the CB7 guys, or you could invest in an aftermarket standalone system that will plug in to everything that you have now. That would be the better route, obviously... but more expensive. I don't think you can tune an OBD2 ECU the way you can an OBD1 ECU... then again, I'm not exactly an expert there, so I may be wrong.

In all honesty, if 210-230whp is your goal, you could PROBABLY get away with using your stock internals. Accord R33's motor had over 200k miles on it when he boosted it, and it ran for quite some time (until he sold the car... I'm told that the engine was near the end of its days when the new owner got it, but I can't confirm that by anything other than his word.) That engine was also boosted for about $500 using the most ghetto parts available, and a tuner that was just learning what he was doing (he's practically a genius, but he was still a beginner at that point.) He was making 220whp on an F22A6.

With a quality setup and a good tune... I don't why you'd need to break into the block at all. Just tune it carefully. Eventually, the ringlands may give out (how soon depends on the current condition, how you drive it, and how well you have it running.) At that time, replacing the internals with forged bits would be wise.
Just boost it stock. Do it carefully, and do it right. When it goes, and all is done right, it will simply be the ringlands. In the meantime, you can save your pennies and do your research to find the right internals for your plans when that time comes.

[SleepyG]

OBD2 can give you some tuning limitations. You could convert to OBD1 and tune like the CB7 guys, or you could invest in an aftermarket standalone system that will plug in to everything that you have now. That would be the better route, obviously... but more expensive. I don't think you can tune an OBD2 ECU the way you can an OBD1 ECU... then again, I'm not exactly an expert there, so I may be wrong.

In all honesty, if 210-230whp is your goal, you could PROBABLY get away with using your stock internals. Accord R33's motor had over 200k miles on it when he boosted it, and it ran for quite some time (until he sold the car... I'm told that the engine was near the end of its days when the new owner got it, but I can't confirm that by anything other than his word.) That engine was also boosted for about $500 using the most ghetto parts available, and a tuner that was just learning what he was doing (he's practically a genius, but he was still a beginner at that point.) He was making 220whp on an F22A6.

With a quality setup and a good tune... I don't why you'd need to break into the block at all. Just tune it carefully. Eventually, the ringlands may give out (how soon depends on the current condition, how you drive it, and how well you have it running.) At that time, replacing the internals with forged bits would be wise.
Just boost it stock. Do it carefully, and do it right. When it goes, and all is done right, it will simply be the ringlands. In the meantime, you can save your pennies and do your research to find the right internals for your plans when that time comes.

Interesting.

Besides my HP goal, I want to do lapping so it for sure will be getting abused some. It's because I still want to drive it on the street that I don't need more than say 230WHP for drivability.

If I was just gonna boost as is, I could settle for less HP in the mean time to be safe. Probly a better idea to track it with less power anyways just to get a feel for the car.

I actually need to track it as is now before adding power. See how the car reacts in corners and hard braking etc.