H23 Manual Tensioner conversion question

[n4red]

I am about to do a H22 swap and started swapping out the necessary parts from the f22, but in doing my research for this swap i notice alot of people saying to do a h23 manual tensioner conversion. Is this really a needed process. Can i just change the waterpump timing belt and tensioner belt and be doned?

[TypeG]

the auto tensioners are prone to failure. i wouldn't chance leaving the auto tensioner on there. if it fails, it's just like a broken timming belt. later.

[n4red]

Thx Type G for explaining. i was beginning to think this was one of those that everyone says you should do but didn't really know why.

[Kurobei]

In reality....

The H23 manual tensioner conversion supposed to be more bullet proof compared to the H22a auto tensioner when you are going to be making insane or more than 200HP in the future...

My car is living proof that the H23 tensioner isn't what the internet hype is cracked up to be. The reason why i'm saying this is because it's still "mechanical" and anything mechanical is prone to failure one way or another.

I had the h23 tensioner conversion done to my car with brand new OEM parts and installed by a professional race shop Blacktrax. However one tiny faulty damn spring on the manual tensioner failed on me making the already "snug tight" fit of the belts tighter and tighter until it started stretching over the gears causing my timing to jump. I found it weird on occasions that my V-tec would hic-up and my 3rd,4th,5th gear seemed to be not even there...then on other occasions my car would be just fine. I later found out my timing belt teeth where shredded on different parts of the belt which explained the v-tec hicups.

I got lucky when my timing belt failed on me (didn't snap just got smoothed out) as I was just in the parking lot going less than 5mph about ready to start off in 1st at a stop sign. I had no bent valves and still perfect compression however it messed up my water pump in the process.

I'm not saying don't do it, but keep in mind the h22a auto tensioner is part of regular maintenance when you do your timing belt job according to Honda. I got my car converted back to a Auto tensioner after this ordeal because of 2 reasons.

1) It was made for the H22a. No stretched tight fit belt causing a slight whine and it runs much quieter.

2) I'm not planning on 250+ HP anytime soon so I don't need the h23 tensioners security.

My old h23 tensioner setup is most likely going on my spare H22a longblock which in time will be built for Turbo.

I say go for the h23 conversion but don't just leave it on there and forget about it. When you do a timing belt change, take a look at mechanical parts as well time to time.

[jm991700]

The H23 manual tensioner conversion supposed to be more bullet proof compared to the H22a auto tensioner when you are going to be making insane or more than 200HP in the future...

My car is living proof that the H23 tensioner isn't what the internet hype is cracked up to be. The reason why i'm saying this is because it's still "mechanical" and anything mechanical is prone to failure one way or another.

I had the h23 tensioner conversion done to my car with brand new OEM parts and installed by a professional race shop Blacktrax. However one tiny faulty damn spring on the manual tensioner failed on me making the already "snug tight" fit of the belts tighter and tighter until it started stretching over the gears causing my timing to jump. I found it weird on occasions that my V-tec would hic-up and my 3rd,4th,5th gear seemed to be not even there...then on other occasions my car would be just fine. I later found out my timing belt teeth where shredded on different parts of the belt which explained the v-tec hicups.

I got lucky when my timing belt failed on me (didn't snap just got smoothed out) as I was just in the parking lot going less than 5mph about ready to start off in 1st at a stop sign. I had no bent valves and still perfect compression however it messed up my water pump in the process.

I'm not saying don't do it, but keep in mind the h22a auto tensioner is part of regular maintenance when you do your timing belt job according to Honda. I got my car converted back to a Auto tensioner after this ordeal because of 2 reasons.

1) It was made for the H22a. No stretched tight fit belt causing a slight whine and it runs much quieter.

2) I'm not planning on 250+ HP anytime soon so I don't need the h23 tensioners security.

My old h23 tensioner setup is most likely going on my spare H22a longblock which in time will be built for Turbo.

I say go for the h23 conversion but don't just leave it on there and forget about it. When you do a timing belt change, take a look at mechanical parts as well time to time.

Well the people who installed the h23 tensioner must not have done it right. I used the F22 tensioner on my H22, and had no problems. So the people at blacktrax must have not done it right. I know for a fact that the write ups on the conversion, dont tell u everything.Like i had to add an extra washer so the timeing belt and the balancer belt dont rub. A lot of people think there exprerts on things but they mess up on alot of things also.

[n4red]

this is going to be a daily driver and i don't plan on increasing hp over 250hp. i am leaving that build up for my GSR. so would it be safe to say i can just leave the auto tensioner setup but replace it with new parts? what i am really trying to avoid is unnecessary labor.

[Kurobei]

Well the people who installed the h23 tensioner must not have done it right. I used the F22 tensioner on my H22, and had no problems. So the people at blacktrax must have not done it right. I know for a fact that the write ups on the conversion, dont tell u everything.Like i had to add an extra washer so the timeing belt and the balancer belt dont rub. A lot of people think there exprerts on things but they mess up on alot of things also.

I stand by Blacktrax and their work and surely doubt it was them because they have been doing this conversion for years.

The part that failed was the tiny spring. The tiny spring basically snapped dunno how but maybe it was a dud. There isn't anything real to it for the spring and it isn't indestructible can extend and bend and break just like a slinky. Things like this can happen and new parts and sometimes even new cars can be "lemons". I just lucked out I guess as far as my motor being good still but it sucks that the tensioner failed because of the stupid spring.

What I'm trying to stress is that the H23 tensioner conversion isn't bullet proof and can fail just like the auto tensioner for different reasons. It's a good thing to do for high HP setups but if the H22 tensioner was such a DUD from factory, Honda would've had a recall on that a Looooooong time ago and probably would've produced H22a motors with the older H23a tensioner design or something better to begin with. Remember the H22a motor started in 1992 in japan and lasted till 2001 over here...thats plenty of time for honda to fix the auto tensioner if it was really a MAJOR failing part.

[Chrisisiced]

If your swapping a motor and not looking to go above "near factory" hp levels the auto tensioner is fine. However i would recommend you start out with a brand new one though!

[cb7-R]

I stand by Blacktrax and their work and surely doubt it was them because they have been doing this conversion for years.

The part that failed was the tiny spring. The tiny spring basically snapped dunno how but maybe it was a dud. There isn't anything real to it for the spring and it isn't indestructible can extend and bend and break just like a slinky. Things like this can happen and new parts and sometimes even new cars can be "lemons". I just lucked out I guess as far as my motor being good still but it sucks that the tensioner failed because of the stupid spring.

What I'm trying to stress is that the H23 tensioner conversion isn't bullet proof and can fail just like the auto tensioner for different reasons. It's a good thing to do for high HP setups but if the H22 tensioner was such a DUD from factory, Honda would've had a recall on that a Looooooong time ago and probably would've produced H22a motors with the older H23a tensioner design or something better to begin with. Remember the H22a motor started in 1992 in japan and lasted till 2001 over here...thats plenty of time for honda to fix the auto tensioner if it was really a MAJOR failing part.

I will venture to say Blacktrax did a poor job of the install. The spring is only there to give the proper amount of tension to the belt during the install and nothing else. It is not there to keep tension on the belt, that is what the pulley bolt is for. So wether the spring breaks or not should not have any bearing on the belts' tension after the bolt is properly torqued down. And while honda did not recall the tensioner they did issue service news stating to replace any failed tensioners with a new one with a diffrent part number. One thing I cannot say is how good the new tensioners are. I have not seen any of them comeback leaking.

[Kurobei]

I will venture to say Blacktrax did a poor job of the install. The spring is only there to give the proper amount of tension to the belt during the install and nothing else. It is not there to keep tension on the belt, that is what the pulley bolt is for. So wether the spring breaks or not should not have any bearing on the belts' tension after the bolt is properly torqued down. And while honda did not recall the tensioner they did issue service news stating to replace any failed tensioners with a new one with a diffrent part number. One thing I cannot say is how good the new tensioners are. I have not seen any of them comeback leaking.

I see... well when Honda did my manual to auto tensioner conversion, they blamed the spring as the culprit of everything..... hmm

[whatever210]

i had skunk2 pro 1 camshafts on my car with the h23 man tensioner and ive never had a problem with it. nor have i ever heard of it failing on anybody till now. i would have to say it was improperly installed

[DAMIEN]

i thought the main reason ppl were having problems with the auto tensionor was they were just reusing them. i just bought a new auto tensionor for my h when i was building it, and honda told me that your supposed to change them pretty much every time you change your timing belt (every 60-70,000 miles or whatever it is). at the time i just thought it was another money grab (cause there like $200.00) until i broke my stock one trying to put it back in.
i think either one works just as well as the other (on a stock motor) as long as there installed properlly, and checked regularly.

[cb7-R]

i thought the main reason ppl were having problems with the auto tensionor was they were just reusing them. i just bought a new auto tensionor for my h when i was building it, and honda told me that your supposed to change them pretty much every time you change your timing belt (every 60-70,000 miles or whatever it is). at the time i just thought it was another money grab (cause there like $200.00) until i broke my stock one trying to put it back in.
i think either one works just as well as the other (on a stock motor) as long as there installed properlly, and checked regularly.

Well the service manual says nothing about them being regular maintenace items. But i suppose replacing them at 100k intervals cant hurt and makes sense.( Honda belts are good to 90k-100k.)

[almostJDM]

How can you tell if the auto has gone bad? I'm reinstalling my auto tensioner on my f20b and its all the way out, and I'm thinking its time for a manual tensioner since I plan on making around 230whp once my JUN cams get in so I had planned on doing the conversion when I install the cams, since I would have to remove the engine again then anyways



thanks

[trickedaccord92]

I think what kurobei is trying to say is that even though the H23 tensioner is a better designe it can still fail do to faulty parts ... he isnt saying it wont work ... sometimes things work sometimes they dont ... i still have the auto tensioner on mine and have had no problems