Legend Brake Swaps... things you ought to know.

[s1ideways]

what generation legends can we find these brake calipers off of?

[ukaccord92]

hey its all good now , the brakes are fine what i did was it took off the green stuff pads and just added the ebc standard pads and i not sure what happen there but i will test the green stuff once more to rule out the juddering my guess is, this is the second time ive used ebc green pads on accords and they dont seems to work great .(i dont know why)

[4drcord]

i think because you need high heat for them to work properly otherwise daily driving to work and such will suck. i had them also and they were horrible. it feels like old pads. ill never do these again.

[s1ideways]

so what generation legends are these brakes from?

[zipcreature]

I am sorry for digging up this old post, which I've read. I'm left with a few quick questions.
Background: 1991 LX (R drums). Daily'd and AutoX + heavy braking habits and "spirited" driving on the twisties!

AV6/Si vs. Powerslot Rotors

I would like to upgrade to the Acura 2.3 CL hubs with either - AV6 11.1" rotors or powerslot rotor.

1) AV6 rotors are the same as 1995 Prelude Si rotors, correct? And they are 11.1"? Are the Wagon rotors 11.1"?

2) Would Powerslot rotors be better than the AV6/Si rotors?
Any idea on the diameter of the powerslot rotors?http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brake...tor&perfCode=A

3) Acura 2.3 CL hubs provide the ease of the "hub over rotor" correct? http://www2.acuautoparts.com/parts/p...l+Hub+Assembly

Acura Legend 2pot calipers
http://www2.acuautoparts.com/parts/p...per&category=N

1) Will the Acura Legend 2pot calipers work properly with either 11.1" AV6/Si rotors OR the Powerslot rotors?

2) Will I need an adj. prop. valve when I swap on the front 2pot calipers, or will an EX prop. valve suffice?

3) What year(s) Legend calipers am I looking for anyways?

Brakelines
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brake...+Brakeline+Kit

1) Do I need brakelines for an Acura Legend or will the Accord ones fit also?

Sumary

AV6/Si/Powerslot rotors, 11.1"
Legend 2pot F calipers.
(90-97) Accord EX rear disks w/ prop. valve.
Hawk HPS pads - (For the Legend front, Accord rear) http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brake...ads&perfCode=S
Goodrich SS brakelines - (For the Legend, or for the Accord)

Like I mentiond I read alot of the threads on the brakes and I still had these questions. If ANYONE has valid, genuwine input then I would be very appreciative!
Many many thanks to everyone like USC and OEMaccord who put alot of time and effort into checking these things out!

I love my CB7 (even when I dont haha )

-Zipcreature

[zipcreature]

babump

[ACC0RD22]

im not sure if anyone else read the H-T thread taht was posted by BustedLX (i think) a couple pages back, but it contains some very useful information.
heres the link again : http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=293540

Ok guys, I finally found it and you won't believe it.

The Type R calipers should, in theory, be better than the NSX calipers.

Here's the reasoning: Using the hydraulic principle, if you apply force to a small piston connected to a fluid that's connected to a larger piston, the pressure in force/area is applied over the larger area, effectively multiplying the force (but not the work - I won't go into that right now).

As a result, the best braking will be delivered by the largest caliper area.

The NSX brake has two pistons - 34 and 40 mm respectively. Using the area formula, the 34 mm piston has an area of 3630 square millimeters. The 40 mm piston has an area of 5024 square millimeters.

The ITR single piston caliper is 57mm. This is an area of 10202 square millimeters. This means the braking force applied by the ITR piston will be greater than that applied by the NSX pistons together.

I never would have thought that, would you?

Shawn

and another post fixing his mathmatecal errors

quote:The NSX brake has two pistons - 34 and 40 mm respectively. Using the area formula, the 34 mm piston has an area of 3630 square millimeters. The 40 mm piston has an area of 5024 square millimeters.

As noted above, I screwed this up.
The piston area of the 34mm piston is 907 square millimeters
The piston area of the 40mm piston is 1256 square millimeters

quote:The ITR single piston caliper is 57mm. This is an area of 10202 square millimeters.

Yep screwed that one up too. The area of the ITR piston is 2550 square millimeters.

quote:This means the braking force applied by the ITR piston will be greater than that applied by the NSX pistons together.

This conclusion stands however. The ITR caliper WILL have more braking force than the NSX. I'm still surprised. Maybe the heat dissipation issue pressured Honda into choosing the dual piston caliper for the Acura Legend Coupe, and for the NSX as well.

Shawn

i definitely found this post the most informative, and it definitley swayed me to use the wagon/ITR caliper when i upgrade my brakes sometime in teh future over the NSX caliper.

just to add a note, read the thread, because there are some messed up numbers in the thread, referring to the NSX and legend caliper pistons diameters. there are no calculations for the correct diameters for the NSX caliper, but the calculations for the ITR and legend calipers are correct. please read the thread for further info

[mikey d]

are there any threads that say Exactly how any of these swaps shoudl be performed? what parts to get and where to find them and what the costs are?

there isnt a ton of helpfull information in this thread about actually upgrading brakes on the accord, it seems like a lot of In theory stuff.

[usc]

are there any threads that say Exactly how any of these swaps shoudl be performed? what parts to get and where to find them and what the costs are?

there isnt a ton of helpfull information in this thread about actually upgrading brakes on the accord, it seems like a lot of In theory stuff.

1) Do you plan to hit the tracks often? (And by this I'm not referring to the 1/8-1/4 dragstrip.) More like autocrossing.

2) Are you able to lock up your brakes? (Or have ABS engage?)

If you answer 1) No, 2) Yes... then you don't need to upgrade your brakes. It's as simple as that. If for whatever reason, you can't lock up or engage ABS, then your entire brake system needs to be looked at by a professional.

[zipcreature]

I'mm still interested in a brake upgrade but first I want rear disks but I would still like to know the info.

Yes)
Def.)

- Zipcreature

[mikey d]

my question still wasnt answered.


but to answer the questions posted to my question.

Yes I Autox, not nomally in my accord but if the engine swap im doing gives good results and maybe I can find a brake setup that doesnt fade as bad Itll be family autox fun instead of me going solo.

No my brakes really wont lock the tires. the brakeing performance is what i would consider fairly poor for anything except for average city driving.
the accord IS a fairly heavy car and brake fade is a problem.


What i was asking was where is the info on the parts prices and things to get to do the differnt brake swaps.

[Granite CB7]

Just wanted to bump this up

From researching part #'s and such, you can use either 94/95 Legend GS 4DR calipers OR 93-95 Legend L or LS 2DR calipers. Both are the same thing, and are both 2 piston. The reason I posted this was b/c in another thread (below) it stated you had to use the 94/95 GS 4dr calipers but the 93-95 coupe calipers are the exact same thing.

http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...ight=Rotor+hub

I'm planning on upgrading my entire front brakes fairly soon- Legend 2 pots, Lude VTEC 11.2" rotors, along w/ the CL ROH swap and new bearings.

EDIT: Another link regarding NSX calipers + 25T brackets:
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=61184

[Losiracer2]

Just something to add, the Vigor brake swap is also possible, without having to flip the orientation of the caliper. It uses the same bleeding sequence as the accord. It is also hub over rotor like the accord, which means the Vigor rotor can also be used. You are going to need Vigor calipers and brackets which are the same as the Prelude Vtec and Accord Wagon as well as the ITR. So to sum up: I bought HAWK HPS NSX/ITR/Vigor pads for 78 dollars, Vigor Brembo Blanks for 98 dollars, Remanufactured Vigor calipers for 112 dollars w/o the core fee and SS brake lines for 100.

[bcjammerx]

well, the prelude caliper on the stock Accord rotor wouldn't give you any added benefit whatsoever. the prelude pad area may be bigger (i'm speculating here) but if you can lock the brakes up w/ stock calipers already, there's no need for prelude calipers.

this is a good thread with LOTS of good info...

I remembered this reply...while the point I think usc is making here being is that since the stock system can lock up the tires they are fine for stopping power...I think most folks go for this because it's easier to change the rotors with this setup...and you don't run the risk of having to replace the bearings. That can be avoided but well...still a risk.

Also we should remember warped rotors as a result of too much heat

The stock setup overheats very easily...and you don't have to heavy brake to overheat them quickly either.

This causes the rotors to warp very easily, cheap after market parts will do that too of course but the small system really hurts.

and that's an added plus of upgrading the brake system. Of course the I do not believe the prelude setup is going to accomplish that.

But larger setups will have longer life with harder use...and less likelihood of warpage for longer periods...especially with normal use...which with normal setup and normal use you can warp those rotors.

Add increased air flow capabilities PLUS larger components and awwwwwee yeaaaahhh

[King James]

So I am to understand that the only thing that makes this a problem is the fact the bleeder valve is in the wrong spot.....and to negate this all you have to do is bleed the caliper off the car?