Front Brake Upgrade - Questions

[CB7Nub]

Currently I have CB9 front calipers, 25T bracket, and CB9 size rotors (11" or so).
I want to upgrade as I track sometimes.

I'm looking to change two things, the caliper to Acura Legend dual piston calipers (and bracket if needed), and go ROH while staying 4x114.3 (rotors will have to be change obviously).

1) To get ROH what hubs can I use? I know you can use 98 Acura CL 2.3 (and that generation) hubs, anything else?
2) With the Acura Legend dual piston calipers, will the 25T bracket be fine or is it recommended to get 28T brackets?
3) Obviously CB9 brake pads won't work in the Legend caliper right? And when I need to get pads what other size of pads will fit? I heard 1st gen NSX pads are the same size as the dual piston Legend calipers.
4) What rotors will I use when I switch over to ROH 4x114.3? (ex. Prelude 92-96 etc)

[mtnbikaah]

Legend dual piston calipers use the same pads as the CB9 (NSX do too I believe).

3.0 CL rotors and caliper brackets are 28T and are ROH, IIRC.

I'd assume that you can use 3.0 CL hubs but I'm not sure on that...

Hopefully I remembered all of this correctly...

[Jarrett]

Currently I have CB9 front calipers, 25T bracket, and CB9 size rotors (11" or so). 11.1"
I want to upgrade as I track sometimes. I'll address this later after I answer your questions.

I'm looking to change two things, the caliper to Acura Legend dual piston calipers (and bracket if needed), and go ROH while staying 4x114.3 (rotors will have to be change obviously).

1) To get ROH what hubs can I use? I know you can use 98 Acura CL 2.3 (and that generation) hubs, anything else? Not unless your knuckles and wheel bearings change as well.

2) With the Acura Legend dual piston calipers, will the 25T bracket be fine or is it recommended to get 28T brackets? The 23T, 25T and 28T caliper brackets are all designed for use on 11.1" rotors. So they all position the caliper exactly the same distance from the center of the rotor. the difference is the thickness of rotor they were designed for. In every single instance with these Honda 11.1" rotors you choose your caliper bracket based ONLY on the thickness of rotor you want. If you want to run the '93-'96 Prelude VTEC rotors you'll need a 23T bracket. If you want to use a '98-'99 3.0CL rotor you'll need a 25T bracket.

3) Obviously CB9 brake pads won't work in the Legend caliper right? And when I need to get pads what other size of pads will fit? I heard 1st gen NSX pads are the same size as the dual piston Legend calipers. When selecting pads within the application spectrum of the 11.1" setups we're talking about you also want to do so based on the rotor/bracket size. If you wanted to run Legend 2-piston calipers on 23mm-thick rotors then you'd use '93-'96 Prelude VTEC rotors, 23T brackets, pads from a '93-'01 Prelude VTEC (or '92-'94 Vigor, '91-'95 Legend with single-piston calipers, or '96-'98 2.5/3.2TL). If you wanted a 25mm-thick setup with those same calipers then you'd need '98-'99 3.0CL rotors, 25T brackets and pads from a '97-'99 3.0CL (or '91-'97 wagon, '95-'97 Accord V6, '95-'98 Odyssey or '96-'99 Isuzu Oasis)

4) What rotors will I use when I switch over to ROH 4x114.3? (ex. Prelude 92-96 etc) Answered above.

Truthfully, I would just scour the junkyards until I found a '98-'99 Acura 3.0CL and take the whole front knuckle. Leave the calipers since it sounds like you already own the same ones anyway. Leave the rotors too and just buy new. That way everything is right there ready to go. You'll probably still come out cheaper than buying new hubs and you'll be using a larger wheel bearing also. Tippey764 did this and has pictures in his member'd ride thread. However, it's as straightforward as as a remove and replace job gets.

If this simply a "Because I track" and with zero element of wanting to look cool then I'd say stick with what you have and buy some decent pads. The Legend calipers are NOT light at all and you'll just be adding unsprung weight to the front of the car. The calipers you have now will lock the front end up so you're not really benefitting from anything. I would get a Wilwood setup if it were truly a function over form type of decision.

Legend dual piston calipers use the same pads as the CB9 (NSX do too I believe). Same SIZE pads, but not really the same. The wagon calipers are made for 25mm-thick rotors and the NSX pads are made for 28mm-thick rotors. Also, there are differences in compound and the surface on the backside of the pad depending on whether or not that application used a 1 or 2-piston caliper. But that's not important.

3.0 CL rotors and caliper brackets are 28T and are ROH, IIRC. The 3.0CL uses 25T brackets and 25mm-thick rotors. This is true whether it was the '97 HOR design or the '98-'99 ROH.

I'd assume that you can use 3.0 CL hubs but I'm not sure on that... The 3.0CL uses a larger bearing and the inner race diameter is larger. That's why we have to use the smaller '98-'99 2.3CL. It really is a one-off design that Honda had to develop because they wanted to ditch the HOR setups from all their cars after '98 but still had chassis like the 2.3CL that used the smaller wheel bearings.

Hopefully I remembered all of this correctly...

[mtnbikaah]

I really need to stay out of these "brake upgrade" threads, particularly if I'm remembering stuff off the top of my head.

I just know that when i bought my brake pads (for my cb9) they had the same part number for legend GS and NSX brake pads....

[Jarrett]

Really? From Honda or from an aftermarket seller?

[mtnbikaah]

aftermarket. I was searching on rockauto.com.

Lookup BENDIX D503CT

[Jarrett]

Well, for what it's worth OEM Honda numbers are different. Some aftermarket companies don't let details like being correct get in the way of their product offerings. Interesting, though. Of all the details involved in a swap like this I suppose it's the least concerning. A mm variation in thickness will just mean more or less life in the pads. Trying to go too much more and you risk the piston in the caliper not being able to expand far enough to accept both the pads and the rotor.

[jay92889]

Truthfully, I would just scour the junkyards until I found a '98-'99 Acura 3.0CL and take the whole front knuckle. Leave the calipers since it sounds like you already own the same ones anyway. Leave the rotors too and just buy new. That way everything is right there ready to go. You'll probably still come out cheaper than buying new hubs and you'll be using a larger wheel bearing also. Tippey764 did this and has pictures in his member'd ride thread. However, it's as straightforward as as a remove and replace job gets.

If this simply a "Because I track" and with zero element of wanting to look cool then I'd say stick with what you have and buy some decent pads. The Legend calipers are NOT light at all and you'll just be adding unsprung weight to the front of the car. The calipers you have now will lock the front end up so you're not really benefitting from anything. I would get a Wilwood setup if it were truly a function over form type of decision.

Sorry to revive an old thread but I'm really interested in getting these dual piston calipers in the jy as one of mine is out and I'm not sure what combination of bracket and rotor I would need. So if I get the Legend 2 piston calipers, I would need the Legend pads, 25t brackets from a wagon, and wagon rotors? Will this give me the best stopping power?

Thanks!

[Jarrett]

The best? No. But will it work? Yes.

[jay92889]

The best? No. But will it work? Yes.

What would be the absolute most powerful setup for oem 4 lug setup then?

t28s are from Legends, right? but they use a 5 lug set up, so I couldn't do that. And as far as I've read there aren't any 28mm 4 lug rotors.

So the thickest 4 lug rotors I could use would be from wagons with t25 and legend dual piston caliper?

[sonikaccord]

What would be the absolute most powerful setup for oem 4 lug setup then?

t28s are from Legends, right? but they use a 5 lug set up, so I couldn't do that. And as far as I've read there aren't any 28mm 4 lug rotors.

So the thickest 4 lug rotors I could use would be from wagons with t25 and legend dual piston caliper?

Best does not equal most powerful...

Most powerful? RLs by far will have the most braking force available. That doesn't mean you'll stop any faster, and will mess up your bias. There are some available in the FS section on the forums with the rotors drilled for 4 lug. You may have wheel clearance issues as the caliper sticks out about 15-20 mm from the rotor face and you have to run 17s or larger.

Stick with stock or similar calipers with an aggressive tire and pad compound.

[Domesticated]

Just Run better pads! I have Prelude VTEC rotors and Hawk HP Plus pads. It works very well for the track.

['93CB7Ex]

i got rl brakes on my coupe. i like them. but im also 5 lug