Ok looking for everyones input to fine tune my suspension. Basically Im looking to add rotation to the car during apex. setup is KYB agx(set at 4) w/ neuspeed sport. 50 series rubber at 32 psi all around. I was thinking of adding a rear sway bar, that may help bring the back end around in a corner. Also, looking for what others are front/rear PSI to induce oversteer. If youve ever driven a 92 celica or the likes, you will understand the balance and control this car has at the edge, where a little bit of quick steering input during apex into the corner will bring the tail out controllably , this is what im looking for.
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"You've done more threatening prescription drugs..."
"the character of a man can be judged by how he takes his criticism"
"Quoting yourself is like, masturbation" -Starchland -
Upgrading your sway bars will help out alot. Especially on the DX & LX Accords which do not have a factory rear sway bar. A word of wisdom though - the Suspention Technique rear bar is decent, but it is not balanced well with the front bar. I do not advise getting these. Rather look for an adjustable rear bar, and then pair that with a front bar. You want the ability to tune with the rear bar, as not all companies offer a f/r set that is tuner properly for our cars.
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/pric...sion/Sway_Bars
Good tires cannot be emphasized to much! What sence is it having a great suspention set-up, if you cannot put it down to the cement?
Look for a tire with a good speed rating, a reinforced shoulder, and a lower profile.
The higher the shoulder (side) of the tire is, the more leway it has to roll over, that is to flex. This makes getting the power down diffacult, and makes the car sloppy. However, a taller sidewall does make your ride smoother. But who care? No one, okay moving on...
Rims do not need to be fancy, JDM, and especially not big. I have 15 Prelude Si rims, which are 15x6.5. These rims can hold a 215 size tire, perhaps even a 225.
Right now I have 205/50/15 Falken Ziex and they are decent. @ $56.00/tire its a really good deal.
(http://www.discounttiredirect.com/di...35&rd=15&ar=50) Tire pressure is important. For more oversteer use more PSI rear, less front.
Springs slow down body roll, not eliminate it. Race springs are stiffer than Sport springs, and lowering springs and all others you should not waste money on. I have Progress Sport springs right now, they are better than 300k OEM springs!
I recommend going right into a race spring, Neuspeed Race are almost unbeatable. http://www.neuspeed.com/products/product_details.asp?app=11|AC&type=2<ype=ns_impo rt&p_id=1525 This combination of the Neuspeed Race and Koni Yellows is probably one of the best for the money.
If you are into performance driving, if you are an enthusiast, if you plan to attend an Autox sometime, then spend the extra money and get a "coil-over" system. For me, that is looking like the next step. However since I have not done any research on them, I have nothing to say yet, except please do not insult yourself and buy something fucking stupid like Skunk2 coil-overs, or Ground Control.
Some chasis bracing would help improve the feel; a front and rear strut bar would be nice. I have a El Cheapo rear and it feels stiffer now. I got mine from www.streetbeatcustoms.com for $40.00. For the front I would like the 4pt Neuspeed bar; http://www.autopartsauthority.com/ap...ord~parts.html it is pure sex.
Pick up a copy of "Ultimate Handling Handbook" it has a red prelude on the cover - its worth EVERY DIME of the like $20.
And finally I just say "Go for a drive". Take some corners hard, hit the on ramps at 40mph to start with, and then progressivly faster. Learn to feel what the car is doing while you are turning (and by turning I do not mean making a right hand turn onto a street) but rather a fast turn on a bend in the road.
With the proper tuning our cars can handle very nicely. I have done decent at the Autox and I am learning every day new things. Thats also very important is to just read all the suspention threads, read all the members rides threads and check out the setups. Read the thread "list your susp. and rate it" and also "susp. 101" <-- Fucking great thread.
- ZipcreatureLast edited by zipcreature; 11-07-2005, 01:30 AM. -
no 17'sOriginally posted by zipcreature
falken ziex is not an autocross tire
strut bar won't do anything
much better books out there
i'll chime in more later but:
when trying to get more oversteer, most people concentrate too much about reducing rear grip rather than INCREASING FRONT grip...to get oversteer, you just have to have more grip in front than the rear....if you add a rear swaybar, you are just taking grip away from the rear, but your front grip hasn't changed any...the front tires do ALL the work...keep that in mind...more laterFor Sale:
itr mid pipe = $80 + shiping
tr injen sri $80 + shipping
(2) Eibach ERS 600x2.5x600 = $80shipped in USComment
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Very well said.Originally posted by azian21485
Oil leak?What oil leak? That's just sweat from all that horsepower!
Applied knowledge is power!
NITROUS FOR YOUR BODY
BIRTHDAYS ARE JUST AROUND THE CORNER
registration is freeComment
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well for the time being it will be for street driving...17s arent an option for me, they will slow me down.
"You've done more threatening prescription drugs..."
"the character of a man can be judged by how he takes his criticism"
"Quoting yourself is like, masturbation" -StarchlandComment
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While they do help your car handle quite a bit better, the rear sways do give you less grip (think about the front, put an upgraded one, and you will have more understeer). Its all about getting it to the pavement. On stock tires it will give you less grip, with some stickies, it'll help. But, the rear sway bars other benefits outweigh the fact that it "gives you less grip in the rear" since it makes the car more neutral.Originally posted by zipcreature
Same thing with strut bars, you just have to choose the right kind and setup. I have never run with a rear upper, but can tell you that the front upper on my setup helps quite a darn bit.
That is the other thing that comes into play, each car has different characteristics, and how it will respond to mods. And you have to change these mods depending on how the driver drives the car.
As far as getting the rear out on the car, a rear swaybar will help the most especially if you do not have one already. Progress is hands down the best for our cars IMO and I am sure many will agree since plenty people swap ST setups for the progess with no looking back. But playing with tire pressures, suspension height, and suspension dampning will all help you get to your goal.
I usually run higher PSI in rear so the front tires have some flex and get to grip, the rear arent doing much so they can just chill back there doing whatever.Comment
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Originally posted by zipcreature
the diameter of the rim doesn't determine contact patch, but it's the width of the rim
a 225/45/15 tire vs a 225/45/17 tire both on 7.5 inch rims will have the same amount of grip, but the 15's will have a better gearing advantage, weight advantage, and easier on the wallet =)
but then you might say that the 225/45/15 will throw off your speedo, so you'll have to use a 225/50/15 tire, which has a larger sidewall allowing more flex and less grip which is entirely true....but i think the stock speedo sucks in the first place =)
you're getting confused between the falken ziex and the falken azenis 215
falken ziex = street tire
falken azenis 215 (aka. azenis sport) = one of the top autox tires around and used on many national trophied cars...but it has been replaced with newer models this year
a swaybar DOES keep the tires on the ground...that is totally correct, HOWEVER:
when a car is turning at a radius, there is body roll (duh) which is caused by load transfer (which is caused by a separate force but is not important)...anyways, you can think of load transfer as "weight" transfer (but keep in mind, no actual "weight" is being shifted..it's just easier to comprehend)
load transfer travels through the suspension...so springs will absorb some of the load transfer which causes them to compress...some through bushings and other suspension components...and then the remainding energy is exhibited on the tires...the problem with a larger swaybar, in simple terms, is that it causes more load to be transfered to the tire too quickly, causing the tire to be "overloaded" so to speak, and the tire will lose traction
although an increase of load does help a tire grip, it is these sudden on and off loads that the swaybar induces (as opposed to slower transfers from springs) that causes the tires to lose grip...street tires are super prone to this because they have soft sidewalls, but race tires have MUCH stiffer sidewalls allowing the tires to flex less
but then, it gets even more complicated because swaybars help reduce body roll, which prevents changes in toe and camber,....less body roll also allows you to lower your car more without bottoming out, which allows a lower center of gravity which increases grip too lol
thus is why going too big of a swaybar is not good, and choosing a swaybar that works with your spring rates is needed also....gotta find a balance which is hard, hence why many people just slap on a big rear swaybar to get the back end out the easy way which doesn't require any headaches...choosing a front bar isn't as easy unfortunately =)
*you can google something like "swaybars and load transfer" or something and others can explain it much better than me and correct mistakes as well*
a rear strut bar may or may not help stiffen up the rear...imo, there's not enough stuff going on back there in the trunk to really effect anything....but that's just my opinion
also, super easy ways to get the rear rotating for free:
toe out
less camber in rear, more camber in front
ps. it's late and i'm tired so i probably messed up this post somewhere..will correct tomorrow
pss. sorry, i know i tend to always get super technical in my posts, but it gives me a chance to see if i know what i really know and if i understand itFor Sale:
itr mid pipe = $80 + shiping
tr injen sri $80 + shipping
(2) Eibach ERS 600x2.5x600 = $80shipped in USComment
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another company you might want to look into is saner...not sure what progress goes for these days, but i think they are around the same price (a little less than $200 + shipping)..however, saner can make bars of any sizeOriginally posted by aero3685
http://www.sanerperffab.com/prod01.htm
i'll be buying a 25mm bar from them next year so i'll report how they are...but they have a good reputation already from lots of club racersFor Sale:
itr mid pipe = $80 + shiping
tr injen sri $80 + shipping
(2) Eibach ERS 600x2.5x600 = $80shipped in USComment
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Awesome info! I see now what you are saying about the rear sway bar decreasing the grip.
As far as the rim size issue - I had to double read what you posted about 225/45/15 before I realized that wasnt a typo. Your correct it will give you a better gearing advantage. So I'm wondering: is there any benefit to having a 225/45/15 vs .../17? I've got Falken Ziex in 205/50/15 on Si rims right now and I hate them. Yes, Falken Ziex not Azenis Sports - I wanted to get them but of course - model changed and they were not avalible and the new ones are more expensive than the older ones. So...
What is your setup right now on your accord? I'm assuming that its the white one in your sig?
- ZipcreatureComment
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wELL I have a progress now.. no intent of upgrading. It was 170ish shipped. knocked a clean 2 seconds off my time which I was getting consitant at. (going from no rear sway to a rear sway). This is on a 1 mile course, street tires.. street setup.Originally posted by azian21485Comment
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what about having 195 tires on a 5.5 rim as opposed to a 205 on a 5.5?
the 205's on mine extends a bit too much from the rim? which is more prone for the sidewall to fold over?
the sway bar theory is right...my friend told me that too and even with my H&R race springs, my body roll is a bit uncomfortable but ive never spun out.Comment
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cool appreciated the feedback guys. It looks like ill try upgrading the puny stock rear sway bar. Im probably going to try an Addco rear from Summit its like 80 bucks, money is an issue.
"You've done more threatening prescription drugs..."
"the character of a man can be judged by how he takes his criticism"
"Quoting yourself is like, masturbation" -StarchlandComment
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the 205 will give more overall grip, but is also more prone to sidewall flex (given that both tires are run at the same psi) ...this causes the 205 to be sloppy during transitions and turn in...the sidewall flex will be more noticable as you increase spring rates or swaybar sizeOriginally posted by wed3kFor Sale:
itr mid pipe = $80 + shiping
tr injen sri $80 + shipping
(2) Eibach ERS 600x2.5x600 = $80shipped in USComment
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there is no advantage to running 225/45/17 vs. 225/45/15...the only advantage by running the 17's is if you are driving something like a corvette (or any other car that comes with super big wheel diameters) and the gearing will become way too short...but of course if you were driving a corvette you'd be running a much wider tire lolOriginally posted by zipcreature
if you are looking for a tire comparable to the old azenis sports, the hankook z212 that came out this year is one of the top tires out there now as well...and cheaper than their competition =)
my setup is very basic right now as i this year i was trying to improve myself instead of the car
koni yellows + skunk2 springs (560lbs/ft) front and rear
stock lx front bar (22mm)
suspension technique rear bar (19~20mm)
15x7 and 205/50/15 azenis
1/4 toe out front , zero toe rear
next year i'm going to up the game a little as i'm going into a different class so changes will be...i'm hoping i don't throw off the current balance of the car too drastically as i'll have to relearn everything again lol:
koni yellows (rear might be double adjustable...still thinking)
650lbs/ft front
550lbs/ft rear
25mm rear swaybar
15x8 and 225/50/15 victoracers
somehow get front camber to -3 degreesFor Sale:
itr mid pipe = $80 + shiping
tr injen sri $80 + shipping
(2) Eibach ERS 600x2.5x600 = $80shipped in USComment
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just put several fast food trays under your rear tires and walah ass out and let me say it gets way out there. Now just make sure to watch them so you dont burn through them to fast use like 5 trays and pull the ebrake. Oh and not many sanctioning bodies allow these j/k. Im sorry for this but tray sliding drifting is the shit and will always be the shit. its like drifting in a honda and getting the angles of a s15.Comment
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