Pierce Motorsports strut bar group buy!

[johnl]

Ahh. I almost forgot about the fender braces...hint

The hardest part with designing my fender braces was finding some means of attaching them at the front / upper location point. There is no convenient bolt or easily accessible hole. In the end I welded a reasonably large 3mm thick rectangular plate to the outside of the inner fender panel. These plates (1 per side) have a nut welded to their inner face so a bolt can be used to attach the brace (each of these nuts is recessed into a hole I made in the fender panel).

[sonikaccord]

That's sounds like a simple solution. And if that was the most difficult part then it's a very feasible idea.

[johnl]

That's sounds like a simple solution. And if that was the most difficult part then it's a very feasible idea.

It wasn't too difficult. It would have been easier if I'd had a MIG welder on hand, but I had to weld the plates on with a stick welder (which is a bit of an art on thin sheet).

The inner fender metal is quite thin, so the plate needs to be fairly large in order to spread the load into the sheet metal, as well as be welded on near corner folds in the fender panel (not just in the middle of a more or less flat area, which would probably cause flexure in the thin panel under load).

My brace is very simple, it's just a tube that attaches to the fender as above (as far forward as practicable, which is dictated by the edge of the wheel arch and the desirability of keeping the tube straight, i.e. no bends), and angles downward to a plate (to which the tube is welded) that fits over the lower door hinge mount and held by the hinge mount bolts (I may have needed longer bolts, but can't recall for certain).

I don't see any real need for another tube passing back to the upper door hinge, the existing metal looks quite rigid enough in compression (which is the load in which an upper tube would be, with the lower angled tube being in tension under load).

[Lucien]

I'd be in for fender braces.

The problem i'm running into with all of this is that there's a couple people interested in each respective item, but not enough interest to create a production jig for any of them.

I love custom parts and am addicted to suspension tuning, but my wallet only goes so deep (pretty shallow, actually) and with the lack of names in for the group buy, i'm paying full price for all the prototyping/parts.

Given enough interest, i see the next pieces made being the traction bar and front strut bar. Jim is open to anything though, so long as there's enough demand to take time to make a jig/prototype which takes time away from his main projects.

[Lucien]

Just checking in to say the trunk brace has been amazing so far and is really motivating me to complete the rest of my suspension overhaul.

I think a rear sway bar plus the trunk brace and a front strut tower bar make the car feel completely different from stock. Totally flat through turns at any speed, feels glued to the road, makes the car feel far more neutral.

And i can still fit some grocery bags in the trunk between the cross bars!

[af_1132]

Keep holding out and tell Pierce to hold out as well. I think the success of the group buy is going to be determined by the amount of time ESP is down. If it becomes clear that they are down for a TBD amount of time that looks like more than a definite month or two, then I am in for a traction bar and 3 point upper strut and 4 point lower strut bar at full price!

[Lucien]

Keep holding out and tell Pierce to hold out as well. I think the success of the group buy is going to be determined by the amount of time ESP is down. If it becomes clear that they are down for a TBD amount of time that looks like more than a definite month or two, then I am in for a traction bar and 3 point upper strut and 4 point lower strut bar at full price!

That's pretty much my only option right now.

I was thinking of moving the thread to offtopic but checking the daily traffic on the forum, i don't think it'll make a significant difference. You're right that it's gonna come down to demand due to esp's situation.

[Mike1357]

I'd say I'd be interested in the neuspeed style 2 point bar with the gusseting. My only thing is I would want to see prototype pictures. It's kinda hard to commit.

[Lucien]

I'd say I'd be interested in the neuspeed style 2 point bar with the gusseting. My only thing is I would want to see prototype pictures. It's kinda hard to commit.

That's the issue.

I really want to get these parts to people, which is why i setup this group buy, but there's no benefit for me to pursue it if people aren't willing to commit without seeing the final product on my car first. This means paying full price and spending the time to get these custom parts made, just to post them up and receive waning interest.

It's frustrating seeing everyone whining about the lack of quality parts for our chassis and when i try to get new parts made, people back off and decide to go with cheaper shit. I've posted pics of their strut bar designs, trunk brace designs, tie bar designs and it's still nothing but doubt and speculation.

If interest doesn't pick up soon, especially with ESP's shutdown, i'm gonna give up on the group buy and just make these parts for me, when i can afford to. Is this how all group buys go? Does the initiator have to have all the parts made at full price for his car, just so others can then get a discount from the manufacturer, leaving the initiator with no benefit for his/her effort? That's not the experience i've had with group buys for other chassis.

This wasn't aimed at you, just to clarify. I'm venting due to frustration.

[af_1132]

That's the issue.

I really want to get these parts to people, which is why i setup this group buy, but there's no benefit for me to pursue it if people aren't willing to commit without seeing the final product on my car first. This means paying full price and spending the time to get these custom parts made, just to post them up and receive waning interest.

It's frustrating seeing everyone whining about the lack of quality parts for our chassis and when i try to get new parts made, people back off and decide to go with cheaper shit. I've posted pics of their strut bar designs, trunk brace designs, tie bar designs and it's still nothing but doubt and speculation.

If interest doesn't pick up soon, especially with ESP's shutdown, i'm gonna give up on the group buy and just make these parts for me, when i can afford to. Is this how all group buys go? Does the initiator have to have all the parts made at full price for his car, just so others can then get a discount from the manufacturer, leaving the initiator with no benefit for his/her effort? That's not the experience i've had with group buys for other chassis.

This wasn't aimed at you, just to clarify. I'm venting due to frustration.

Woah, dang boy!

Group buys can go two ways:

1. The parts already exist and the company has previous sales under their belt: A company can approach a forum like this with an offer to sell discounted parts as long as a certain number of buyers commit monetarily. This is how the recent FFC Rear LCAs group buy went. We all knew about these pieces because many products had already been sold to happy customers.

2. The parts do not exist, and the company/forum member presents an idea for custom parts. This is more like your situation. Sometimes, like in the recent group buy for a custom first first gear for Synchrotech M series transmissions, there isn't much decided beforehand when things are presented in a thread, and a lot of money must be put down (the 10 piece custom parts and labor costs, or a whole transmission build) to get results. Due to those two things, the group buy usually sits and withers away. I haven't seen a group buy like this be successful, but that doesn't mean this can't result in more business for the company. You, however, are in a little predicament, since you spent some money to get a part made and will not get any benefits from a success in the group buy, at least for that part.

From my perspective, the extra money that would have to be laid out to put together custom braces is totally worth it. That 4 point strut bar is a REALLY strong piece! I guess I, having been mentally sold on everything ESP for so long, was having trouble switching gears to this company in my mind. I am, over time, slowly switching gears, even if I have to drive down there for installations!

When we think about the reasons ESP is down (low demand), it does make since that there isn't much demand for these parts as well. However, I , and I'm sure Pierce as well, do appreciate what you have done to give this company some well deserved time in the spot light.

[Lucien]

Woah, dang boy!

Group buys can go two ways:

1. The parts already exist and the company has previous sales under their belt: A company can approach a forum like this with an offer to sell discounted parts as long as a certain number of buyers commit monetarily. This is how the recent FFC Rear LCAs group buy went. We all knew about these pieces because many products had already been sold to happy customers.

2. The parts do not exist, and the company/forum member presents an idea for custom parts. This is more like your situation. Sometimes, like in the recent group buy for a custom first first gear for Synchrotech M series transmissions, there isn't much decided beforehand when things are presented in a thread, and a lot of money must be put down (the 10 piece custom parts and labor costs, or a whole transmission build) to get results. Due to those two things, the group buy usually sits and withers away. I haven't seen a group buy like this be successful, but that doesn't mean this can't result in more business for the company. You, however, are in a little predicament, since you spent some money to get a part made and will not get any benefits from a success in the group buy, at least for that part.

From my perspective, the extra money that would have to be laid out to put together custom braces is totally worth it. That 4 point strut bar is a REALLY strong piece! I guess I, having been mentally sold on everything ESP for so long, was having trouble switching gears to this company in my mind. I am, over time, slowly switching gears, even if I have to drive down there for installations!

When we think about the reasons ESP is down (low demand), it does make since that there isn't much demand for these parts as well. However, I , and I'm sure Pierce as well, do appreciate what you have done to give this company some well deserved time in the spot light.

Yeah, re-reading my post, it comes off a bit bitchy. Sorry for that.

I've been through a few group buys on the mazda 3 forums. They were like this one. People wanted a part that no one made at the time. So, a forum member talked with a shop, posted up the parts info/price and proposed group buy. Once people saw that the shop made quality parts and the price was fair, they JUMPED to have their name added to the gb list and put down their deposits. Prototype is mocked up and pics are posted. Everyone on the list gives their input for changes/improvements or all agree to go forward with production. The shop then creates a jig, runs the first batch of the part for the aforementioned list and people happily post when they receive their new goodies.

Watching this happen multiple times with little to no hiccups on the development side and experiencing the solid interest of those requesting the part has made this group buy a rather dismal experience. My mazda 3 has very limited aftermarket, just like our cb's, and that community is ecstatic and active about new parts development.

It's just mind boggling to hear "TRACTIONBARTRACTIONBARTRACTIONBARINEEDIWANTSOMEON EGIVEMENOW!!!" and then only crickets when i respond that i'm working with a new shop to get it made. If i had the interest and support i need, i'd have my car down at Pierce CONSTANTLY to prototype new parts.

As it is, i just can't afford it all right now. I do plan on having them make me a traction bar, rear sway bar, front strut bar and skid plate. With a succesful group buy, this could be done in short order and result in many happy community members. It seems, though, that i'll be the only one with these custom braces that everyone says they want, but won't commit to.

Shit, i'd make custom parts for everyone myself if i could, just because one day i want the cb chassis to be heralded along side si's and type-r's. I've always loved cb's and it's maddening to see the apathy that a lot of the community suffers.

edit - just re-read your post and realized Pierce satisfies your first point completely. They've made great, track proven parts for other chassis, of which i've posted evidence and links to their site. Still, only a few people have actually asked to be involved. If the major parts manufacturers stopped giving a shit about our chassis, our only alternative is to put faith into the shops that do care enough to help us out.

[Lucien]

For example, if Greddy were to announce interest in developing a trunk brace for our cars, people would literally throw money at them in demand for the part.

Not because we have evidence it works on our chassis, because we don't. Not because they've shown a general interest and support of the community.

Just because they're Greddy. Just because they've made nice parts for other cars. Just because people trust them, despite their total loss of interest in our 24 year old cars.

The only difference with Pierce is the size of their business and lack of marketing budget.

[cb9love]

Has it been verified that the front strut tower bar will clear a swapped cb.
Also what are the chances of a 2 point rear strut bar that will fit a cb9, I'm not willing too sacrifice that much cargo space to a 4 point bar on the wagon.
As long as it clears a swapped cb and its as sexy as the ones shown put me on the list for a 2 point front strut bar.

[Lucien]

Has it been verified that the front strut tower bar will clear a swapped cb.
Also what are the chances of a 2 point rear strut bar that will fit a cb9, I'm not willing too sacrifice that much cargo space to a 4 point bar on the wagon.
As long as it clears a swapped cb and its as sexy as the ones shown put me on the list for a 2 point front strut bar.

I haven't been able to coordinate with a swapped local and Pierce to mock one up and check the fit with an H. I'm working on it, though.

I believe the wagon rear shock towers are the same dimensions/distance from each other as the sedan/coupe. If that's correct, we can just use the tower bar from my trunk brace to make the 2-point rear bar. Shouldn't be a problem.

[cb9love]

I haven't been able to coordinate with a swapped local and Pierce to mock one up and check the fit with an H. I'm working on it, though.

I believe the wagon rear shock towers are the same dimensions/distance from each other as the sedan/coupe. If that's correct, we can just use the tower bar from my trunk brace to make the 2-point rear bar. Shouldn't be a problem.

I am under the impression that the wagon is slightly wider between the rear strut towers, early next week I'll see if I can get some measurements of both.