So i got an Alignment.

[JohnD1079]

So I got a lifetime alignment at Firestone. Right now they have a $25 off special, and if you sign up for their credit card you get an additional $10 off. In total I paid $151.xx. Good price considering last week I wouldve gotten it done for $190



Couple quesitons.

-I want to get adjustable ball joints. the 0-1.5 degree ones would be good, correct? I dont know know much setting the camber back to 0 would change the toe.

-Caster, you adjust that by adding washers or deleting them in the radius rods in the front subframe. Would i add or delete washers in this case? Would more or less caster help with wheel hop?

-My right rear toe bolt is stuck. Which lower arm is that, front or rear?(i could find this by searching, but if you know this off of the top of your head, please help).

-WTF is SAI, Included Angle, and the cross things?

[johnl]

In total I paid $151.xx. Good price considering last week I wouldve gotten it done for $190

You must be kidding?! In Australia a four wheel alignment is more like $70 (at least around where I live).

Couple quesitons. -I want to get adjustable ball joints. the 0-1.5 degree ones would be good, correct? I dont know know much setting the camber back to 0 would change the toe.

Why? Your camber looks good, I wouldn't touch it. Yes it's outside factory spec, but in this case that's not a bad thing. About 1.5° neg camber (front) is about ideal for a performance road application (less on the rear, I think your rear camber is excessive relative to the front). This much camber will have hardly any impact on tyre wear unless the toe is significantly far from zero.

If you do alter the camber then it will definitely affect the toe and an alignment will be required. Decreasing camber will create toe-out to some degree.

Decreasing camber (from where it is) will tend to decrease grip in any corners where significant body roll occurs. Some people might even think you have too little static camber, but I tend to think it's about right.

-Caster, you adjust that by adding washers or deleting them in the radius rods in the front subframe. Would i add or delete washers in this case? Would more or less caster help with wheel hop?

Your caster is good, very good. A bit more would be even better, but probably not easy to achieve. Adding washers decreases caster, if washers are present then deleting them will increase caster.

If you decrease caster then the steering will become lighter, less responsive, you'll lose some steering 'feel' and self centring action, the car will be less directionally stable when driving in a straight line, and the desireable steered camber changes caused by caster will decrease, so front end grip in tighter corners will decrease (i.e. less steered camber change, steered camber change caused by caster angle being a 'good thing').

Wheel hop is more likely to be caused by soft dampers and/ or soft / worn suspension bushes (and possibly engine mounts?), I can't see caster causing it, or making it better or worse.

My right rear toe bolt is stuck. Which lower arm is that, front or rear?(i could find this by searching, but if you know this off of the top of your head, please help).

Is it stuck, or does rotating it make no change to the toe setting? If so then check that the eccentric washer on the nut end of the bolt isn't fitted 180° out. If it is then two ends of the bolt will move in and out in opposite directions as the bolt adjuster is rotated, with almost zero affect on toe angle (and what little there might be will be random).

Note that the bolt has an eccentric flange at the bolt head end (part of the bolt), and an eccentric washer at the nut end (keyed to the bolt shaft but seperate). Both these eccentrics affect toe angle as the bolt is rotated and the eccentric washer should be oriented in the same relationship to the bolt as the eccentric bolt flange.

The rear toe adjuster bolt is located on the forward of the two lateral control arms, at the chassis mounting.

-WTF is SAI, Included Angle, and the cross things?

SAI = 'steering axis inclination', aka KPI or 'king pin inclination'. It's more or less the same as caster, but is the inward lean of the steering axis whereas caster is the rearward lean of the stering axis. SAI and caster have different affects on steering.

'Included angle' is the angle between the axis of the wheel hub (i.e. axis around which the wheel rotates) and the SAI. It's a fixed angle and cannot be altered. When you change the camber angle the KPI also changes to an equal degree, but the included angle doesn't. Included angle may change due to accident damage to the upright (knuckle), in which case the camber will also be off and the scrub radius too, but SAI may remain the same.

'Cross' is refering to the difference in side to side measurement, e.g. if left rear camber is 1.7° and right camber is 2.1° (as it actually is in your case) then the rear 'cross camber' is 0.4°, i.e. 2.1°-1.7°=0.4°. Ideally the 'cross' numbers should be zero.

Note that the front cross camber on your readout is 0.2°, but looking at the raw camber readouts shows that it should be 0.1°. I think this must be a product of the alignment program on the alignment machine rounding off decimal places when it calculates the readout...?

[CB7Man]

Yea my alignment was $55
Then I hit a curb....now my steering wheel is like 10 Deg. off lol

[The G-Man]

I am very confused. Do you live in Canada or Pennsylvania?

[19dabeast85]

The Honda dealership does alignments for $90 here in SC. That price sounds a bit high!

[Gyuri87]

I got my alignment done for 65$ and thought it was expensive. 150 is a rip off. Over twice what I paid.

[starchland]

i was gonna say congrats on finding lifetime alignment in canada but i see that is from penny....anyways, i wouldnt worry about that amount of camber...i have been running that for like 40k easy and my tires dont show any uneven wear...altho your one rear looks a little out there hard to read what does it say 2.1?

[JohnD1079]

I didnt read all the replys, im too tired, Ill read them later tonight. I live in Canada, used to live in PA, i went back there to take care of some stuff.

$150 is for lifetime alignment. Meaning i can take it back there as many times as i want. I asked the guys multiple times if They will honor it in canada. He said ANY firestone HAS to honor it.

[PR CB7]

bro any alignment shop
will say that lowering ur car will make the aling ment imposible

havent u heard of SET THE TOE AND LET IT GO

for the accord the only one adjustable is TOE

caster u can do by shims in the radius rods
and camber by KITS

IN THE ACCORD

so they'll try to fix whatever they can
then tell u that u have to buy other shit
or since ur ar is lowered it makes it almost impossible for them
(uused to do alingments)

if they cant do nothing they'll blame ur tires
i suggest u find more info and learn bout alingments
the last thing u want is spending tons money to make ur car go straight

[JohnD1079]

Well i was wanting adjustable ball joints because I need new upper ball joints anyways. Mine are OK right now, but are one their way out. JohnL, so you think 1.3-1.4 -deg. of camber is ok? for some reason i think its too much. Everyone says that they have it at -1 deg. for cornering reasons, but I could honestly care less about that. I barely "beat" on my car, Going above 4k in my h22 i consider beating. For some reason i wanted 0.5 -deg. of camber. I dont know why.

WIth adjustable ball joints i can try out various degrees, and with a lifetime alignment, it wont cost me anything

[JohnD1079]

Oh, and for the rear Camber, At firt i was just going to do the washer trick, but now im thinking to buy a whole camber kit simply becasue after 210,000 miles, i think my upper ball joint on that is going to need to be replaced

http://www.spcperformance.com/PROD_D...ROD_SEARCH.cfm

Would i get 67065 or 67265(8)? They both say they adjust from -2 to +3.5 degrees. Which confuses me because isnt that supposed to change with the amount the car was lowered. Onesays u to 1.5", and the bent arm styleays up to 3"

[CustomLowz]

So I got a lifetime alignment at Firestone. Right now they have a $25 off special, and if you sign up for their credit card you get an additional $10 off. In total I paid $151.xx. Good price considering last week I wouldve gotten it done for $190

Thats alittle High... In my area, a 4wheel alignment will run about $100

[starchland]

where i am an alignment is one hour labor which is roughly 85 bucks.

john your camber seems to be fine imo.

[johnl]

They both say they adjust from -2 to +3.5 degrees. Which confuses me because isnt that supposed to change with the amount the car was lowered.

What is meant is that the adjuster will give an adustable range of 5.5°, with a bias in the adjustable toward positive camber assuming a starting point that is at the stock camber angle.

The reason they would design the adjusters with a bias toward more potential increase in pos camber will be because they are assuming a lowered car will have some additional neg camber from having been lowered.

[UrDoneSRH]

90 bucks at the local shop I take my car to. I've seen up to 150 at some shops, but I would never pay more than 100.