would the H23 IM fit onto an SOHC F22b vtec head? just wanted to know before i go experimenting and mess something up. lol
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I dont think the intake ports are the same.
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Originally posted by Shadow1
There is a big long thread about it on Accordingly Done.
A kid on there did it, I personally wouldn't do it and here is why:
1) The flange on the F22A/H23 IM is not exactly the same. It took a fair amount of grinding material away to get it to clear the VTEC solenoid.
2) The F22A/H23 ports are much more oval and much larger than those on the F22B1. Therefore, you will have a large mismatch between runner flow, and port flow. Plus, the fact that the ports are smaller, leaves a substantial lip in the runner just as the air is entering the port. I have no idea what this would do to the airflow, but considering that port matching usually improves HP, I would expect a detrimental effect caused by the turbulent airflow that will undoubtedly result from this lip.
3) Neither the F22A nor the H23 T-stat housing bolt to the F22B. The F22B one works, but it will only have one bolt to support it instead of 3. That might be fine, but he was having some issues with coolant leaking. Personally, I am not going to stake the reliability of my car on one little bolt the size of that one.
4) Coolant leaking. The crossover pipe on the two engines is different. Apparently this was solved by welding the crossover to the T-stat housing. That is more seals to replace if you ever have to pull the IM because the only way to separate it at that point is to break the seal at the waterpump housing and seperate the whole assembly.
5) In order to really effectively use the dual runner setup, you will have to improvise some sort of solution because the ECU has no accomodations for it.
6) The kids engine blew shortly after the swap. I don't know what he did to it, but knowing what it takes to actually blow a Honda engine, I can't imagine that it went easy. Don't know if the IM was the culprit, or just generally his "function over form" i.e. half-assed engineering that did it.
Honestly, I don't know if you have an F22B1 already, but the F22Ax with an A6 cam, manifold, and H series plenum and TB swap, will bury an F22B1. If you were to go with a Delta regrind, and then a chipped and tuned ECU, the difference would be quite a bit more substantial.
The F22A6 put down 140HP stock, which is only a 5HP defecit on the F22B1. There is also a 5lb/ft deficit in the torque dept. It isn't hard to make up that difference with bolt-ons.
The F22B1 was unfortunately, setup more for economy than the F22A from a design standpoint. It has an odd flange bolt pattern (as does the F23 in the 6th gen Accords), so there isn't nearly the parts interchangeability there is with the F22Ax.
One thing to consider would be getting an IM from an F23 and putting that on your F22. The plenum is a little larger which should aid high RPM breathing.
I would imagine that it could be machined to accept an H22/H23 TB, so that would probably put it right on top of the H23 manifold in terms of gain, without the headache.
I believe the H22 head will bolt right on to an F22B/F23 block, so that is one option you can consider.
Another good option is that all F series motors LOVE the boost.
IMO, one of those would be a better option with a better gain than hacking up an H23 manifold for a minimal gain in power, and a large loss in strength, reliability, etc.Last edited by owequitit; 10-26-2006, 01:19 PM.Comment
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Originally posted by d112crzy
Yeah, that one!
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CrzyTuning now offering port servicesComment
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Originally posted by owequitit
everyone that does this setup has to deal with this, so I dont think this should be part of the reason why he shouldnt do it.
I know that for the f22a's its much easier becasue they could simply get a pt6, but its not hard to get a chipped p06.
but yes, i agree with you 100% on everything else.
CrzyTuning now offering port servicesComment
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They are not meant to be bolted up IMO, unless some portmatching is done and if that can be done safely. I'd personally just have the stock F22b1 intake manifold ported by www.chrracingproducts.com, talk to Jeff.
Ask him for a price, not worth doing all them mods IMO to get it to work only to have it not even match up portwise, you're shooting yourself in the foot bigtime.Comment
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Originally posted by d112crzy
Well I was just figuring he had the stock VTEC ECU. If it is OBD-1, then it would work. If he has it set-up to use OBD-II stuff (don't know why he would, but maybe it is a CD), than that option becomes even more complicated.
IMO an F23 IM with H series TB would probably be best.Comment
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thankl you . all of you for your input.
i have an F22a1. i got the bottom of the line motor. lol. i was THINKING about putting an F22b1 SOHC vtec head on then swaping an h23 IM onto the head. but i read that putting the F22b1 SOHC vtec head was kinda pointless b/c you dont get very good gains for the amount of work.
i might end up just getting the a6 cam and headers then swaping an h23 IM and putting in an p12 from a 93 F22a prelude. with just those do you think i should notice a difference in the HP and TQ?Comment
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From where your setup currently is, you would be much better off just keeping what you have.Originally posted by Shadow1
The only thing that is different about your F22A1 and the 130HP F22A4 is the exhaust manifold and catback.
If you put an H23 IM, and TB you will notice some increase.
If you add a header and catback, you will effectively have better than an F22A4.
As far as cam goes, I would probably recommend a Delta 260 or a Delta 272 regrind. The 260 should be good for about 15HP and the 272 should be good for about 20HP. The 272 is getting fairly aggressive though, so it may require some tuning to get it running right.
If you were to put an H23 manifold, and an A6 cam with an exhaust system, you will probably be right around 150 crank HP. If you went with the Delta regrind also, you could very easily be around 160-170 crank HP. Get an ECU and tune it to run the cam to its potential, and you may be looking at a few more HP.
Figure an H23 IM is probably $100-150 for everything
The A6 cam is probably $50 or so. Delta regrinds are $100 if you send them a core.
A chipped ECU is about $150 or so, and there may be someone in your area who can tune it for you.
And then for exhaust you can use a combo of an A4 exhaust manifold, a catback of your choice, and possibly a high flow cat. You could possibly have all of this for less than $300 depending on how you do it. You could just use the stock exhaust piping too, although it will help with a freer flowing system.
You can conceivably have an extra 20-30HP, maybe more for a couple hundred bucks. And it will be pretty much all factory, and it will be perfectly reliable, while stomping the crap out of an F22B1. It will also rev happily to at least 6800 while gaining low end torque too.
As far as being happy, I am much happier with this setup, and I only have the A6 cam. I run neck and neck or pull slightly on my best friends CD with a 5 speed. He has all the same mods I do, and although his car is somewhat heavier, it would seem that I am putting out more HP, because not only do I lose more to the wheels based on the fact that I have an auto, but my gear spacing sucks more, and he still has to rev it out to 7K, or I start pulling. He also has significantly less mileage.Last edited by owequitit; 10-26-2006, 05:09 PM.Comment
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I'm assuming the above port mis-match also applies to the F22B2? A guy over on gen5alive is trying to put an H23 IM and A6 intake on one, and seems he found a mis-match at the head ... pretty significant too.
Anyone know if full F22a swaps into 5th gens are viable? It just seems the F22B got shafted as far as these easy mods.
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Originally posted by deckedaI'm assuming the above port mis-match also applies to the F22B2? A guy over on gen5alive is trying to put an H23 IM and A6 intake on one, and seems he found a mis-match at the head ... pretty significant too.
Anyone know if full F22a swaps into 5th gens are viable? It just seems the F22B got shafted as far as these easy mods.
That mismatch probably applies for all of them after 1994. Don't know about the non-VTECs, but yes on the VTECS the mismatch is very large. Large to the point where I don't know if you would be able to port the head far enough to match the runners.
I suppose it could be done. I don't see why not. It might be hard (and illegal) to get an OBD-1 engine into an OBD-II car, since you can't just change the manifold like you can with a B, D, or H series.Comment
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thnx owequitit and everyone else for your help. ill be owkring on this for the next couple of months
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