P28 ECU on an NA H22A results

[ACCLUDE91]

I ordered a custom P28 ECU a little while ago from www.ag-eng.com and this is what I've noticed since I put it in.

First of all, here's the specs:

P28 -socketed and re-chipped
custom AGE chip made strictly for JDM H22A
IAB control activated and activation RPM is 5500
VTEC engagement is 4400 at 50% above throttle and 4800 at 50% below throttle
Knock sensor bypassed
Rev limit 7500
Speed limiter removed

The power band seems more even. The acceleration is smooth and constant through-out all RPM's. VTEC engagement is not as noticeable at first, but it only takes a sec. or so for it to become noticeable. When the VTEC engagement was 5500, it kicked in totally strong and ran strong all the way to 7500. Now, it it's a slight difference when it kicks on at 4400/4800, but when it reaches 5000 is when it seems to become a more noticeable difference and then still runs strong up to 7500. NO MORE KNOCK SENSOR ERROR!!!! I kept the stock 7500 rev limit cause my motor is internally stock, and I prefer to be safe than sorry. The motor in general feels more responsive and I really like the results. Thanks to Fizzbob for making me change my mind about replacing the knock sensor and just getting this ECU instead. I'd like to also thank AJ from www.ag-eng.com for AWESOME customer service and for being able to satisfy a strict and stubborn customer like myself

Next on the list: Apexi V-AFC. I also plan to build a custom gage cluster that will replace the stock cluster and have the Apexi control unit integrated in it to replace my speedo and tach gages and adding all digital gages for volt, collant temp., fuel, engine temp., and O2 exhaust level.

[BustedLX]

Re: P28 ECU on an NA H22A results

Originally posted by ACCLUDE91
I ordered a custom P28 ECU a little while ago from www.ag-eng.com and this is what I've noticed since I put it in.

First of all, here's the specs:

P28 -socketed and re-chipped
custom AGE chip made strictly for JDM H22A
IAB control activated and activation RPM is 5500
VTEC engagement is 4400 at 50% above throttle and 4800 at 50% below throttle
Knock sensor bypassed
Rev limit 7500
Speed limiter removed

The power band seems more even. The acceleration is smooth and constant through-out all RPM's. VTEC engagement is not as noticeable at first, but it only takes a sec. or so for it to become noticeable. When the VTEC engagement was 5500, it kicked in totally strong and ran strong all the way to 7500. Now, it it's a slight difference when it kicks on at 4400/4800, but when it reaches 5000 is when it seems to become a more noticeable difference and then still runs strong up to 7500. NO MORE KNOCK SENSOR ERROR!!!! I kept the stock 7500 rev limit cause my motor is internally stock, and I prefer to be safe than sorry. The motor in general feels more responsive and I really like the results. Thanks to Fizzbob for making me change my mind about replacing the knock sensor and just getting this ECU instead. I'd like to also thank AJ from www.ag-eng.com for AWESOME customer service and for being able to satisfy a strict and stubborn customer like myself

Next on the list: Apexi V-AFC. I also plan to build a custom gage cluster that will replace the stock cluster and have the Apexi control unit integrated in it to replace my speedo and tach gages and adding all digital gages for volt, collant temp., fuel, engine temp., and O2 exhaust level.

That's great news. I contacted a guy named AJ that fizzbob7 gave me about the ECU and it was pretty intresting. Basically the P28 they sell that controls the IAB is just a P28 converted to P72 only they don't add the knock only the IAB so that's cool. You get the best of both worlds. No EGR, No Knock, and IAB. Sweet deal.

Question though, why was your knock sensor going nutty? Are you running premium? My knock sensor doesn't make a peep. I'm sticking to the JDM P13 I socketed. I'm running a Spoon varient right now which is pretty nice. I'm going to try a KS-Rom tomorrow and see what that's like.

Oh yeah and why are you going to go with a V-AFC if you just got a chipped ECU? I mean you already changed you Vtec and adjusted your fuel tables so why spend $300 for a device that just fools your map sensor and toys with the Vtec engagement point. I think you should save your money unless you really want it. I hate piggy back systems myself but each to his own.

[ACCLUDE91]

My kncock sensor has been going crazy on me since day 1 that I stalled the motor. When I got the motor, the Knock sensor was smashed. I replaced it with a cheap used unit and it gave me a knock sensor CEL code. I then tried to rewire the knock senso with shielded wire and run it separately from all other wires. CEL code was still there. I went to Honda and bought a new knock sensor for $156 and before I installed it, I started to talk to Fizzbob about the whole thing. I had plans to get a new ECU, but I wanted to take care of the knock sensor error before I did that. He convinced me to just go ahead and get the modified ECU and bypass it altogether cuase I'd be wasting my money otherwise. I have run nothing but 93 gas in it since day 1. I don't have any knock going on, but the circuit was not registering correctly so it was cheaper in the long run for me to go ahead and bypass it now. I actually got my ECU from the same place Fizzbob did and we're both satisfied customers.

The reason I plan to add the V-AFC is becuase I really like the unit. The fuel curves of the ECU are nice and all, but the V-AFC makes it adjustable in 100prm increments (for the new model). VTEC isn't the main reason I'm getting it, but might as well have that feature incase I ever find it benneficial to change the engagement point. I want to add the V-AFC and head to a dyno and fine-tune it so I can see the best results possible out of my current mods. When I add more mods down the road, I can simply dyno-tune it again to squeeze the most out of it. I like the options to change the air/fuel for tuning reasons. The ECU does a fine job by its self, but adjustability is a feature I'd also like to add to my setup. I like being able to have several different fuel curves to choose from so for daily driving, it's 100% econo-box, and then at the track I can select a much more agressive curve for performance reasons.

I also plan to add a MSD ignition with external blaster coil, and that will have the option to adjust rev limit. If I decide to add a cam or do some nice headwork down the road then I might actually want to adjust that as well. I like adjustability so that's the reason I'm picking the mods that I am.

[93accordEX]

just thought I would add in I have a brand new vafc for sale

and I agree knock sensors suck. I got a hondata socketed p28 in a trade for some stuff so Im planning on doing that eventually now i just need to get hondata. lol. after researching for a while though I think this will be a pretty good setup.

[BustedLX]

Hondata is sweet, finding someone that can tune it good can be a pain in the ass. I once got a complete s100b from someone that just wanted to get rid of it because no shop could ever tune the damn thing right. He just went to a chipped ECU with allot of piggy backs.

My knock sensor till now has been good. No CEL's what so ever and the bulb is good . I think it's cool to be adjustable also but I like to keep things simple and simple comes out cheaper some times.

Using the Dyno is the right way to go it's just most people I know buy V-AFC's and S-AFC's and tune them by garbage information of the net or by ear and they never really improve anything. They just look cool. But I can understand where it would help you out given you had a dyno to tell you where and what to adjust.

My P13's rev limit is set to something rediculous like 8500 I also have my speed limiter removed. I have an MSD SCI-L set to 7800 rpm rev limit just in case I miss a shift and my incluster shift light illuminates with my buzzer going off at 7200 so I've got a good way to tell when to shift and incase I don't I've got the MSD

If you could post some Dyno charts when your done I'd love to see them.

[ACCLUDE91]

Yeah, I wouldn't want to add it without tuning it. Afterall it is a tuning tool so it's totally pointless to get one unless you're gonna install it all the way (which means dyno time!). When I get it, I'll post some dyno slips, but it's gonna be a awhile. I told myself I wouldn't buy any more car stuff for at least two months and just finish up on some of the body work I have planned. I'll deff. remember the save the dyno sheets when it happens!

[BustedLX]

Yeah now that my engine is done and I'm happy with it I'm just going to fix the real little annoying stuff maintance and consentrate on getting my bodywork, paint, and all my JDM stuff on there.

[HondaFan81]

What is best setup if you plan on a turboed JDM H22 in the future (swapped into Accord obviously).

Acclude91 & FizzBob:

1) Both of you have a chipped P28 ECU from that AJ guy. What is your take on this?

2) Now, would a Hondata (I believe stage II, whichever is for turbo) system be better than a chipped P28?

3) Or can the chipped P28 with a V-AFC handle the tuning needed for a turbo setup on a JDM H22 as well?

Note: I know that internals would have to change, etc...but assume all that is done and compression ratio was lowered to a more durable limit, etc.

[BustedLX]

1) Sounds good, I'd love to see a Dyno run with it to see the actual improvements but all in all AJ seems to be a knowledgable person. I'm sure it's a good tune. Probably alittle rich to allow room for error.

2) A Hondata system will always be superior to a simple chipped P28 simply because it is so versitile. You can tune and reture, emulate, log data, and etc. It also have many features that such as launch control, variable Vtec limits and etc. that make it a great stand alone system. The only problem with Hondata is finding someone good to tune it.

3) Yes it can handle it but it will not be as good as a Hondata s200b and you won't be able to reach your engines full potentail.

[ACCLUDE91]

I'd say the chipped P28 with a Air/Fuel controler like the V-AFC could handle a mildly boosted setup. If you wanted to use that setup on a heavily boosted setup, then you'd definitely want a different ROM chip in the ECU than what me and Fizzbob have. As far as our ECU's are concerned, they don't even know what boost is or how to deal with it. The air/fuel controler would help, but the ECU still controls other things besides just eh air/fuel so it wouldn't work on setup pushing more than a few psi of boost. Re-chip it with ROM program designed to work with boost and you're in business, but I agree with BustedLX on this one. Hondata is gonna be your best bet for nice turbo setup. I have heard many people who have Hondata controlling their motors say it's one of the best things you could ever do to your motor.

[HondaFan81]

Okay, now for another question I've been meaning to ask on all this.

Scenario# 1:
I have a Boosted H22 with all the mechanical goodies needed to make it run sweet. I have a Hondata S200b setup (or whichever is for boost). I have a camshaft gears, fuel pressure regulator, air/fuel ratio gauge, boost gauge, exhaust temp gauge. However, I have no V-AFC. I just set all this up. I'm on my way to a Hondata distributor/dyno.... now how do I tune my car to not damage the engine in any way, on the way there?!?!

Scenario # 2:
I have everything in scenario #1, plus a V-AFC.

Question:
Which scenario is better to semi-tune the car or set it up so that it doesn't damage the engine on the way to the Hondata dealer/dyno place? To make matters worse, let's say I can't get there for a few days and have to use this car to drive around in.

[ACCLUDE91]

First of all, if you are going turbo, it needs to be tuned in order for the turbo setup to work alright. Basically, you CAN'T drive it until it has seen a dyno. Have it towed to the shop.

If you want to take the chance and drive on it anyways, then you want to set everything super rich (would require an air/fuel controller) and drive it like your 90 years old and can't see more more than 10 feet ahead of you.....basically drive slow as shit and don't take it past like 2,500 RPM.

[HondaFan81]

Ah ha! See, I hear everyone talking about turbos, but it's like this step is skipped. Yea, I know you have to have it tuned, hence me mentioning the heading over to the Hondata dealer, etc to get it tuned. Only, how do ya get there if your ride ain't tuned?!?! hahaha, ya tow it. Just seems funny, but u have a point. That's why i was like...well, wouldn't you need some sort of air/fuel controller with the cam gears, etc. Not to mention ur whole engine is breaking in... do they beat on your engine when you're getting it tuned?

There's another question.... if you have to have your car towed to the dyno, how else can you break it in before hittin the dyno. I'd assume to properly tune your engine , at the dyno you'll take it up to fairly high revs to make sure everythings tight and readout your power/torque, etc.

This is all bout the process...can someone outline the proper process one should follow when getting a turbo engine tuned? Be fairly brief.

build up internals
assemble engine & properly lube moving parts
turn it over by hand after all assembled
upgrade air & fuel systems
install turbo components
retard timing a bit
play with cam gears (I dunno here...advance one, retard the other? ...talking DOHC here)
new oil & oil filter
run engine a bit


Something along them lines...you that have tapped into the engine will know better than I.

[93accordEX]

no need for towing it to the shop. you get a base eprom which will get you around fine but not make a lot of power. plus you can turn the boost real low and just shift at low rpms before you would even see boost.

[HondaFan81]

what is a "base eprom'?? and thanks to all of you for the info, i have a better idea on what's u and Fizzbob7 especially, I agree with your approach.