Can you get high compression rods?

[gloryaccordy]

it would be easier to just shave the head a little. later.

But H22 rods+ a milled head= crazy compression. Odds are clearances would keep this from fruition though...

Cot damn your car is clean...

[TysCb7]

Thinner gasket, wont bump you that much but it will raise it some.

[SteveB]

Seems to me there is more math required.

What are the effects on your numbers of the piston not going down as far in they cylinder, by .155cm?

[gloryaccordy]

Seems to me there is more math required.

What are the effects on your numbers of the piston not going down as far in they cylinder, by .155cm?

There is no effect from what I know. One piston still sweeps through 539cc of displacement, and leaves 52.4cc of combustion chamber at TDC. I don't see what more there is to it.

[Direthought]

I'm kinda un-even on whether this would raise your compression, but why would you want to put stock pistons heads on it anyway?
In the case of compression, its as said before, the biston, and rod for that matter, are still moving in the same "stroke" from the same crankshaft. So really.... you would just be raising the piston higher into the block, and as I recall from pictures.... Our pistons are already damn near flush with the motor, prob like .04 from block deck.
If you had any valvle float, weak springs, ect. then the pistons would hit the valves and bye bye engine. Well, valves at least.

The best way to show for an example would be to try and mate a f23 crank and pistons to the f22 block. It has a longer stroke so the piston would actually leave the block, possibly making one of the piston rings pop out of place onto the deck and destroying your day.

Pistons are your best bet. And are much less expensive than rods... well, the eagles and others at least.

[gloryaccordy]

H22 Rods= $399 + a little down time
11:1 pistons= $439 + getting your block honed

Not to try and shoot you down...just sayin. How much is it to get the bores honed?

[Direthought]

Right so i was messing around with cisco's egine calculator and could'nt get into anything with the rod, but I thought of this though.

Ok,
What is 1.5mm measured in inches? .06 ok. what about it?

Well, add a h22's internals to the f22 block. It is estimated to be destroked to a 2.1
Add those same pistons and rods to a crankshaft that would dislpace .1 more in the same block. That would mean you would create a 2.3 correct? But this is straight up. Not angled in the middle to avoid valves, straight up.
So, this messed up and pointless post is just saying, you would have big clearance issues, and might as well just get the head p&p'ed and have them mill .06 off the head to acheive the same effect.

Oh, and in inches, our pistons are -.001 from deck surface.
And the h22's are .005
Making.... +.065 to your already -.001
so.... +.064

[gloryaccordy]

Right so i was messing around with cisco's egine calculator and could'nt get into anything with the rod, but I thought of this though.

Ok,
What is 1.5mm measured in inches? .06 ok. what about it?

Well, add a h22's internals to the f22 block. It is estimated to be destroked to a 2.1
Add those same pistons and rods to a crankshaft that would dislpace .1 more in the same block. That would mean you would create a 2.3 correct? But this is straight up. Not angled in the middle to avoid valves, straight up.
So, this messed up and pointless post is just saying, you would have big clearance issues, and might as well just get the head p&p'ed and have them mill .06 off the head to acheive the same effect.

Oh, and in inches, our pistons are -.001 from deck surface.
And the h22's are .005
Making.... +.065 to your already -.001
so.... +.064

I don't think you can mill 60 thousandths off. Or maybe you can...it's not too much material. And the engine will retain the same displacement. The rod length/piston height/dome cc has nothing to do with the displacement...it's strictly bore x stroke x cylinder size. I really wish Cisco was here to just end all the speculation...

[Direthought]

I don't think you can mill 60 thousandths off. Or maybe you can...it's not too much material. And the engine will retain the same displacement. The rod length/piston height/dome cc has nothing to do with the displacement...it's strictly bore x stroke x cylinder size. I really wish Cisco was here to just end all the speculation...

Its bore x stoke, no cylinder size involved, that is the bore.
Its safely recommended to mill .05 to the head without clearance issues.
And, the crankshaft is what makes up the stroke. If you added a crankshaft in which its rod journals, (what the connecting rod connects to) were straight, then the motor would not turn at all. So, the h22 crank has smaller journals, or shorter from the lineof the main journal, than the f22. Which would explain the decrease in displacement.

[gloryaccordy]

Its bore x stoke, no cylinder size involved, that is the bore.
Its safely recommended to mill .05 to the head without clearance issues.
And, the crankshaft is what makes up the stroke. If you added a crankshaft in which its rod journals, (what the connecting rod connects to) were straight, then the motor would not turn at all. So, the h22 crank has smaller journals, or shorter from the lineof the main journal, than the f22. Which would explain the decrease in displacement.

The H22 rods have the same bearing and wrist pin diameters as the F22 rods. They are physically longer...if you check here you'll see that the H22 rods are heavier than the H23 rods, and share the same bearing/pin dimensions, which also share the same dimensions with the F22 rods. The only difference is in length.

Again, the stock 95mm crank and 85mm bore remain unchanged...which means the engine still has 2156cc or 2.2L of displacement...the only difference lies in the combustion chamber volume from the piston top sitting 1.5mm higher than before.

[Mike]

I'm kinda un-even on whether this would raise your compression, but why would you want to put stock pistons heads on it anyway?
In the case of compression, its as said before, the biston, and rod for that matter, are still moving in the same "stroke" from the same crankshaft. So really.... you would just be raising the piston higher into the block, and as I recall from pictures.... Our pistons are already damn near flush with the motor, prob like .04 from block deck.
If you had any valvle float, weak springs, ect. then the pistons would hit the valves and bye bye engine. Well, valves at least.

The best way to show for an example would be to try and mate a f23 crank and pistons to the f22 block. It has a longer stroke so the piston would actually leave the block, possibly making one of the piston rings pop out of place onto the deck and destroying your day.

Pistons are your best bet. And are much less expensive than rods... well, the eagles and others at least.

how is anyone uneven about it weather its raising compression? its basicly doing the same thing as milling the head so its obviously raising compression. but i do however think the rods are problebly to big and they may hit the head

[Direthought]

Ok, well i'm thinking completely different than i should, but you are correct, it would create 10.0 compression.

Modified

Known:
New Cylinder Bore (mm) 85.0
New Stroke (mm) 95.0
Resurface/Mill (inches) 0.000
Headgasket Thickness (inches) 0.028
Headgasket Bore (mm) 85.5
New Piston CC -14.5
New Head CC 50.5
Head Bore (mm) 85.5
Piston-to-Deck Height (inches) 0.064
Number of Cylinders 4

Calculated:

Total Combustion Chamber CC 59.89
Cylinder CC 539.08
Headgasket CC 4.08
Mill CC 0.00
Static Compression Ratio 10.0
Piston-to-Deck Height CC 9.224
Total Displacement CC 2156.31

The only problem is that you are raising the piston .06 into the Combustions Chamber. Thus making a clearance issue. Since you know of using bdc and tdc to measure compression, then your good with that, but this is a major hassle seeing as pistons will raise it to 11:0, a point higher.

I cant concentrate anymore on this or my brain will be fried, so i'll stop and you can ask cisco if you have anymore questions.

[gloryaccordy]

I live for this math stuff (I'm an engineer) so I could do this all day...lol...I need help. CISCO WHERE YOU AT???

[Jarrett]

It's simple, if you have .01 inches of clearance between the top of the piston and the deck surface of the head, then adding a rod that's .061 inches longer puts you .051 inches through the head. You begin to compress more than just air and fuel......things like aluminum.

[Jarrett]

Alright I'm going to take back some of what I said earlier. I made the comment that compression wouldn't increase even theoretically with a rod length change. I was confusing my displacement method of thinking into my compression method. I realize now Glory that that's what you were trying to hint to me. But I still stand by this particular application not working. I did a lot of research and the clearances between the deck surface and piston don't permit. I do think I might have figured out a way to make some of this work, but it would be in the exact opposite application.....H22 with F22 internals and H22 pistons. I'm going to read little more on that but when I do I'll make a new post.