Cisco NA F22 non-VTEC SOHC Project - Full Street White

[Granite CB7]

Good update, good to hear that cam is degreed

[HondaFan81]

Bought/pieced together a leakdown tester and bought a compression tester. Going to re-confirm engine health and dynamic compression for reference, respectively. Will use this information and fuel/ignition map upload to converse with some contacts on how to resolve my issues.

All I can say is that the camshaft timing was not the issue, being off by 0.5 degrees and at 300 motor miles the leakdown was 3-4%. The motor has 418 miles now and it should still be fine, but I'll double-check. I also figure that my dynamic compression will be lower than a 12.4 static CR should be (200+ psi) due to this aggressive camshaft, but I want to know where I stand for reference as it may be useful in idle control/low RPM driveability resolution.

Keep y'all informed...

[HondaFan81]

As I mentioned, have to knock out a couple of things on my end. I plan to share maps with some key people to gain more enlightenment on the tuning aspect. I'm trying to nail down the cause of my problems. I can only suspect, but I'm trying to narrow it down by elimination. I have eliminated some things mentioned that are not the problem. Also, due to my setup I can not just ask other people or reference them to fix my problems. My setup is different and so I am limited on those I can ask, that I trust and actually have knowledge.

My setup is capable of making good power, I just need to find out what is causing it not to work well as a system. I feel it is either the tuning or something in the engine setup.

I think some people think I'm dragging my feet, but if it were just checking off something on a list, then I would be done. I'm diagnosing a problem, so that my setup works well together.

Also, I have been to Showdown Motorsports and they specialize in DSM's, they probably do well with that, but I already have a backup tuner in mind if it comes to that. It makes sense to first narrow down the problem before just throwing money randomly. Once I find out, I'll retune.

[HondaFan81]

I no longer have immediate access to an air compressor, do I did not complete a leakdown. However, it was only 118 miles ago (@ 300 miles) that it passed with good values. I'm sure it is still fine.

Compression test values are consistent with low variance, but values are lower than 200 psi as I figured with this camshaft. Nonetheless, this does not appear to be the problem and if anything could seal better with more mileage on the motor.

I have verified the motor is physically fine. I also was informed by the tuner that there is ignition timing errors, which appear to explain the peaks/valleys at 5000+ RPM. However, I am still working on acquiring a consistent idle.

[HondaFan81]

I was having idle issues as well. my s300 IAC duty cycle is now set at 95% and it runs great.

If your tuner says there are ignition timing issues thats almost garanteed where your loss in power is. Many tuners are not very good at tuning timing. Especially on an all-motor car its what makes all the power.

If the IACV duty cycle bar is 0-100% left to right, the tuner set mine at about 60%. He also set it to 1300 RPM with the TPS open at 4.48% closed (physically cracked open for zero point). That's how he got it to idle, even though it's not consistent. When coming to stop & braking, it will stall if you don't blip throttle, signs of low vacuum.

[HondaFan81]

Thank you 'Bisi!! He made time for me today in his busy schedule to discuss my problems. Briefly, idle should be around 950 RPMs with TPS ignition/fuel map control. This camshaft does not produce much vacuum at idle and this does affect your brake booster, but I have some ideas for this. The abnormalities in the dyno graph are due to tuner ignition timing errors. Also, there is a possibility of intake restrictions, I plan to make some easy changes there.

[HondaFan81]

Vac canister for the brake booster will help, or a vac pump.

Yep, was already thinking along these lines.

[owequitit]

Yep, was already thinking along these lines.

So, essentially, you are saying it requires a few more minor mods and a new tuner?

[HondaFan81]

So, essentially, you are saying it requires a few more minor mods and a new tuner?

I think that is the SHORTEST response from you EVER!! To answer your question, it will take me atleast 3 days to respond. I will start with exhibit A.....kidding!

Yes, Scott. I better be driving this car this year man, another year will kill me. I already made up my traditional "TO DO" list and will prioritize on the driveability things and later finish off the low priority stuff I have yet to complete.

[cloudasc]

Glad to hear that progress is being made, and hopefully you'll be able to get all the "kinks" out. Good Luck!

*waits in anticipation*

[d112crzy]

So, essentially, you are saying it requires a few more minor mods and a new tuner?

To make actual power, it needs a tuner that has half a brain. His former tuner had no idea wtf he was doing and had less than a quarter of a brain.

Let me just say..his final timing values were fucking retarded. Literally. I run the same timing at 5psi on turbo motors as what the tuner "tuned" the map to.

The guy barely knows how to tune for air/fuel. Timing is definitely not his forte. He shouldn't be anywhere near any tuning equipment or a car. Seriously.

If I were to add 5 degrees of timing at WOT(which is a lot for an NA setup), he would still have more room for advancement. I understand being conservative...but these timing values are just plain stupid for a "tune".

[dbsharp]

To make actual power, it needs a tuner that has half a brain. His former tuner had no idea wtf he was doing and had less than a quarter of a brain.

Let me just say..his final timing values were fucking retarded. Literally. I run the same timing at 5psi on turbo motors as what the tuner "tuned" the map to.

The guy barely knows how to tune for air/fuel. Timing is definitely not his forte. He shouldn't be anywhere near any tuning equipment or a car. Seriously.

If I were to add 5 degrees of timing at WOT(which is a lot for an NA setup), he would still have more room for advancement. I understand being conservative...but these timing values are just plain stupid for a "tune".

LOL, I guess you finally got avg to not recognize hondata as a virus. This kinda makes me wonder what this setup will put down one its tuned right. I wonder if the dips in the torque curve will still be present with correct ignition timing. I say get it tuned right and go from there.

[HondaFan81]

Jose & all,

This is a performance shop too, not a random tuner. Not to defend his mistake, but the reason for the very low ignition timing values were due to a MAP to TPS base conversion errors. Now, I can understand an innocent mistake, but for him to catch it nearly 1 YEAR later only because I've been communicating with him a lot lately to resolve my issues is ridiculous. He SHOULD have noticed these issues last year/previous tune. I've been pulling my hair out eliminating possibilities and of course, as it always seems....comes down to someone else making an error....many people do not do good work anymore from my interior work to the tuner.

The good side to all this is, I am learning more about tuning. I'll still leave it to someone else, but atleast I have a better clue what is going on.

[HondaFan81]

Dan,

That's the general plan. However, there was mention of potential intake restrictions and since it's easy, I am going to eliminate the 4 port dividers in the plenum and this 1/4" thick adapter plate between the plenum and runners. That is the only restriction I can think of on the intake. It technically will a bit more plenum volume as well.

[d112crzy]

It might not even be a restriction. It may be that the current design is just too big for the power it was making.

Like I said, just tune the bitch properly before you make changes. But I would definitely gut the plenum out and set it right on the runners.