BOLT ON: OEM H23 opinions

[8ball]

What tips and advice can you give me as far was bang for buck and simplicity?

So far Im thinking about doing the following

EGR PORTS

DELETING FITV and AIR BOOST VALVE (I DONT THINK IT HAS ONE)

LOOPING COOLANT

Im on the fence to either gut the manifold or hook the butterflys to a vacuum source?

Any other opinions or bang per buck mods I could do ?

I have a BB6 OEM INTAKE on it :/

[Jarrett]

It has both a FITV and an air boost valve. The FITV issue can be solved by buying an OMNI throttle body and getting a TB-style MAP sensor for it. You'll need to port out the plenum opening for the TB diameter increase.

Why would you consider running your IABs to a vacuum source? Are they functioning now with the proper ECU? If not, they should be. Running IABs to a vacuum source allows them to open much sooner than they're supposed to, defeating the purpose of having them.

Get a plenum spacer and a Bisimoto header if you want to stay out of the engine.

[8ball]

It has both a FITV and an air boost valve. The FITV issue can be solved by buying an OMNI throttle body and getting a TB-style MAP sensor for it. You'll need to port out the plenum opening for the TB diameter increase.

Why would you consider running your IABs to a vacuum source? Are they functioning now with the proper ECU? If not, they should be. Running IABs to a vacuum source allows them to open much sooner than they're supposed to, defeating the purpose of having them.

Get a plenum spacer and a Bisimoto header if you want to stay out of the engine.

I dont think buying an omni tb is a good bang per buck to delete the FITV.

I'd rather delete it, if i could. Same for the air boost valve.

I guess I should gut it out. I'm using a p12(auto) ecu now on my 5MT.

I figure the thermo gasket could increase mpg some?

No way man bisi header? I have a A4 and a H23. Im using the A4 in two week (installed and welded). The H23 will be hacked sent to a machine shop duplicated flange and welded to tri logic knock off header, well thats the plan one day.

For now I just want to use the H23 I have on hand although I refuse to install it with out first cleaning the EGR ports and minimal mods that may help.

Oh And I am trying to stay out of the engine. I Decided that Ill be using the F23A1 block (fresh timing seals gaskets) (*stock pistons*) with a F22A head that's been serviced for maintenance only ie servicing worn items in valvetrain milling and some port matching/cleaning (no special shit) Not even a cam. (no need no high compression pistons)

I expect the combo to give me like 130whp to the wheels.

[rexload]

Deleting the FITV and looping coolant and such - there such little gain that you will never even notice it and it is not even worth it. Unless you are doing it just to do it.

Gutting the manifold and disabling normal operation of IAB plate is more than likely not going to give you the results you are looking for. Leave that for fully-built cars. Gutting the manifold is going to make drastic changes in air flow and will possibly need an ECU tune to take advantage of that alone. But I doubt you will be satisfied with low-mid rpm performance with a gutted mani. It is for fully built cars, not for a stock H23, which shines in the mid rpm range.

The best thing you can do with your manifold is just gasket match everything but once again, that is hardly worth the time you will spend doing it.

I'm going to say that your best bang for the buck is going to be either stage2 cams/exhaust/tune...... or a turbo setup.

Anything short of that is going to provide very little gains to even be worth your time.

IMO doing little things here and there to add 10hp to a stock car isn't worth it. You'll be faster if you spend that money on suspension/tires and weight reduction

[deevergote]

So wait... what engine are we talking about here? You have an H23A1?
If you're not clear, it's very difficult to help you.

[budget street]

So wait... what engine are we talking about here? You have an H23A1?
If you're not clear, it's very difficult to help you.

best bang for your buck for h23 is install h22 vtec head.

[deevergote]

Until it blows up...

[budget street]

Until it blows up...

why would it blow up,

i will rephrase, why do YOU think an h23 stock bottom with h22 head will blow up?

this is hardly a "frankinstein"

[deevergote]

The H23A1 lacks oil squirters that the H22A has, thus the pistons can become overworked and overheated at the RPMs necessary to take advantage of the H22A head.

The H23A1 has a lower redline, due largely to the increased stroke. Revving to H22A RPMs will put a strain on the bottom end, and potentially cause failure.


Additionally, while it's not a potential risk factor... the H23A1 has a lower compression ratio, making it less capable of properly utilizing the H22A head's flow capabilities.



But that's just my opinion. Just what I think. Not like I'm providing well documented facts or anything.

[H311RA151N]

But that's just my opinion. Just what I think. Not like I'm providing well documented facts or anything.

It pretty much is a well-documented fact. He is being sarcastic in case you couldn’t tell. And it is a "Frankenstein" BTW.

Common frankenstein proposals:

http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...t=Frankenstein

I also think 8ball is just talking about an h23IM but I’m not sure yet.

[toycar]

It pretty much is a well-documented fact.

Thread linked talks about using h22/h23 head on f block not an h23. Nothing in that thead talks about using an H23 lower end with h22 head.





Valve timing in stock h22 valve train wouldn't fair well with the length of stroke that comes with an h23. The pistons dont compress enough air to actually take advantage of the h22 head either. The length of the stroke would cause piston speed issues at RPM's high enough to actually enjoy vtec.

Basically, with custom pistons and cams you could dial in the h22 head for just about any compression ratio or stroke.

In stock form though its just plain silly. And I think the idea here is that people think they can swap stock for stock and go. Sure, it may RUN. Not saying that it won't. What I am very clearly saying is that valve overlap, lift and duration would not pair well with the length of the stroke.

You would have valves opening early and closing early. You would never get 100% out of your cylinders because of this without extensive cam and valve train work. Its alot less of an issue if you plan to swap a custom rod/piston combo and get custom cams.


You could get away with swapping the head over stock for stock but the gains would be piss poor and the money would be better spent elsewhere. Unles you plan on building a complete engine the right way from oil pan to valve cover, frankenstein anything is a bad idea in my opinion.

[wildBill83]

Wait a minute.. I'm confused..

This thread started off talking about the H23 intake manifold mods, now it is talking about a frank H23 bottom and H22 top... You do know the H23 intake will not bolt onto the H22 right?

Please give us a clear view of the plans you have and maybe this thread will flow better.

Also does anyone have stats comparing an H23 non-vtec head to the JDM H23 w/ vtec? How much work would it take to convert a H22 vtec head into an H23 vtec head? Just a cam swap? Does the H23 and H23 vtec have a different bottom end other than the vtec oil passage?

I'm suprised no one has mentioned the vtec would not work with a USDM H23 block due to the missing oil passage.

[toycar]

Wait a minute.. I'm confused..

This thread started off talking about the H23 intake manifold mods, now it is talking about a frank H23 bottom and H22 top... You do know the H23 intake will not bolt onto the H22 right?

Please give us a clear view of the plans you have and maybe this thread will flow better.

Also does anyone have stats comparing an H23 non-vtec head to the JDM H23 w/ vtec? How much work would it take to convert a H22 vtec head into an H23 vtec head? Just a cam swap? Does the H23 and H23 vtec have a different bottom end other than the vtec oil passage?

I'm suprised no one has mentioned the vtec would not work with a USDM H23 block due to the missing oil passage.

oil passages can be handled with a drill press or a machine shop. No amount altering parts is going to change the fact that the lift and duration of the stock cam profile is crap for a stroke that is this long.

[Jarrett]

What about altering of the camshafts? I kid, of course.

Toycar, the Frankenstein thread has been updated a bit to include the H22/H23 combo stuff. It's really incomplete because I didn't really get into cam profiles or compression but it's there. Maybe when finals are done I'll make it more informative.

And while not ideal, the cams that the H23A VTEC uses are the same as the JDM H22A cams. This came in a station wagon so it was by no means supposed to be a high-performance car but it's good enough to move a car around.

[wildBill83]

How much work would it take to convert a H22 vtec head into an H23 vtec head? Just a cam swap?

No amount altering parts is going to change the fact that the lift and duration of the stock cam profile is crap for a stroke that is this long.

That is why I mentioned the cam swap with a similar profile to H23A VTEC.

And while not ideal, the cams that the H23A VTEC uses are the same as the JDM H22A cams. This came in a station wagon so it was by no means supposed to be a high-performance car but it's good enough to move a car around.

So literally I could convert my H22A4 into a JDM H23 VTEC by swaping rotating assemblies (being that my mains are already 55mm) and adding a JDM set of cams?