H22/f23 hybrid

[tonytoka1979]

Ok so time has come to retire my f22 its rings are worn and its getting tired..

I have a limited amount of money and want to have K series power without the expense..

so what i have in my possession thanks to my buddy Tim (cb7tuner screen name: budget street) from Budget Street Performance

a f23a1 block with rod knock.
a fresh rebuilt h22a4 head
i found a set of k20 type s pistons and new rings for the cheap.

So im thinking about this hybrid build very seriously..

My idea is sense the head is nice and flat and has never been decked that i am in a good position to do this build.

first im going to have the crank redone and balanced
use the f23 rods
k20 type s pistons
Kaizenspeed balance shaft delete kit
all new bearings and seals
stock H22 head and intake manifold
oem h22 head gasket
going to plug the 2 extra oil return holes on the h22 head with ss set screws and honda bond or jb weld
using the f23 water pump but pressing on the h22 sprocket to allow me to use the h22 timing belt
a set of adjustable cam gears
and ether a p13 or p28 chipped with a h22 basemap untill i can get it on a dyno.


So i know Deev wil not like this but i still want some feedback..

Keep in mind im on a tight budget, and have most parts available already..

[PR CB7]

it'll be pretty fast but never k power fast....

you'll need cams

stay away from the p13

chipped p28 with a 7.5k rev limiter


have the crank check and you might need rods, depending on how bad the knock is

the reason why most of these swaps dont work for some people is the h22 map, this is an engine with 7mm of more stroke, so no 8k mister

again you'll need some cams to take advantage of the low end power and a tune, if neither steps are taken i suggest you hold off on the build until more money is saved

[tonytoka1979]

what about a set of h22 type s cams and a tune?

[tonytoka1979]

having a set of more aggressive cam, would the pistons and valves have clearance issues?

[deevergote]

So i know Deev wil not like this but i still want some feedback..

The "tight budget" part scares me more than the hybrid. Start cutting corners to save money, and you're going to end up with a boatload of problems.
The F23 block still has a smaller bore than the H22 head's combustion chamber diameter, so that will give you a sharp ridge in the combustion chamber. That could provide a source of detonation, which will destroy the motor very quickly. To properly compensate, the sleeves should be bored. This, of course, costs money... and now your K pistons won't fit.

Also, if you're using the F23 rods, you'll be looking at an F23 redline. I believe that would be around 6200... a full 1000RPM lower than the H22's redline. If you add Type S cams, you'll need to rev even higher to really take advantage of them! Rev that F23 crank and rods that high regularly, and something is going to give.



Man, I keep trying to reply to these threads with encouragement, since people lately have at least been doing some research and putting thought into it... not just "i wanna vtech!" I just can't do it, though...

[tonytoka1979]

The F23 block still has a smaller bore than the H22 head's combustion chamber diameter, so that will give you a sharp ridge in the combustion chamber. That could provide a source of detonation, which will destroy the motor very quickly. To properly compensate, the sleeves should be bored. This, of course, costs money... and now your K pistons won't fit.

Also, if you're using the F23 rods, you'll be looking at an F23 redline. I believe that would be around 6200... a full 1000RPM lower than the H22's redline. If you add Type S cams, you'll need to rev even higher to really take advantage of them! Rev that F23 crank and rods that high regularly, and something is goin to give

i thought i read that th f23 redline was 7200rpm?

this is the article i read that got me interested in my parts..

http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp...dge/index.html

[deevergote]

Yeah, that article is where EVERYONE gets their parts list... I wanna kick Luke Munnell in the nuts for writing it!

Honestly, it's not a TERRIBLE idea, and it's at least a little better than doing it with an F22A (larger bore, if not large enough... and at least you have an extra .1L to gain from it.) Still, I don't see building a hybrid as being either a wise beginner project, OR a worthwhile budget project. You could collect parts for a full H22 in pieces, and assemble it as a brand new engine... being sure everything is made to work together... and it will be far more likely to be reliable than a hybrid. If you shop smart, it will cost just as much... or less. I got a bare H22 block in trade for a transmission. I got a slightly damaged head for free (so the cost there is having a machine shop work on it.)

[tonytoka1979]

yeah, but i have this crap laying around and have no clue how long my f22 is going to last.. machine shops around here are extremely expensive (small town very little competition)..

im still almost tempted to just rering my f22 and slap the 14b turbo i have laying around on it...

[deevergote]

I'd replace the pistons in the process, if you wanted to boost. The stock ringlands are the weak spot, and if your rings are already failing, I bet the ringlands are weaker than they would be if the motor was healthy. Stock replacement pistons are relatively cheap, though. They'll break eventually as well, but probably not for a while.

Do you actually have all the necessary parts in your possession already? If so, might as well give it a shot. At least you won't be tearing apart a functional F22A to do it, so if you fail, you'll have your old motor on hand (even if it IS tired...)

I also know of at least 2 FL members that know their way around a hybrid, so you could ask for help from them as well.


The "budget" and "I want a reliable motor" concepts don't sit well with me for such a build. Really, the only time a hybrid should be messed with is if the car is a dedicated project car... in my opinion, anyway.

[tonytoka1979]

I'd replace the pistons in the process, if you wanted to boost. The stock ringlands are the weak spot, and if your rings are already failing, I bet the ringlands are weaker than they would be if the motor was healthy. Stock replacement pistons are relatively cheap, though. They'll break eventually as well, but probably not for a while.

Do you actually have all the necessary parts in your possession already? If so, might as well give it a shot. At least you won't be tearing apart a functional F22A to do it, so if you fail, you'll have your old motor on hand (even if it IS tired...)

I also know of at least 2 FL members that know their way around a hybrid, so you could ask for help from them as well.


The "budget" and "I want a reliable motor" concepts don't sit well with me for such a build. Really, the only time a hybrid should be messed with is if the car is a dedicated project car... in my opinion, anyway.

i have everything but the pistons, balance shaft delete, and bearing, seals ect..

my car is a project car for sure, i have a DD..

[deevergote]

Ah, ok. Then go for it. Just keep that F22 handy, in case you never get the hybrid running!

[tonytoka1979]

ha! the dude in the article makes it sound so easy, cheap and reliable..

[tonytoka1979]

has anyone on here done this build? any tips, tricks?

[wed3k]

have the crank checked out first. honda cranks need to be ground and then re-nitrided. overall, its about a minimum of 400 dollars. (around here)

it'd be worth just getting another crank or block.

[PirateMcFred]

has anyone on here done this build? any tips, tricks?

No.1 Whatever you do don't cheap out.

I've been messing with the F23 block hybrids for a while. If you don't cut corners, run 11+:1 Compression and TUNE TUNE TUNE you can get some pretty nice numbers even with Type-S cams. Keep the rev limit on the conservative side unless you add some aftermarket rods or some super lightweight forged pistons.

Don't just slap it together. A half-assed hybrid will get you a half-assed enigne both in performance and reliablility.

-P