CyborgGT: Mild H22A Build

[gloryaccordy]

I like CBs man I've had 3. Plus you have an RSX as your DD and the family sedan as your project

[CyborgGT]

Uh... what's your point?






My logic behind a four-seater project is that I'll never need to get rid of it. You always hear of guys having to get rid of their project cars because of the expense of starting a family, or buying their first real home. I can safely and comfortably haul a family in my four-seater, and with a well-built engine reliability isn't any more of a problem than any other car on the road. If I'm tight on income while I have both the Accord and whatever sports car I also own at the time, I'll simply sell the sports car and having nothing to be sad about

[gloryaccordy]

OK I guess that makes sense

Though I would prob want a more extreme sports car.

[Joey GT-R]

Umm....I'm pretty sure the title says "CyborgGT's Build"?

[toycar]

Why buy tools for a job he will do once and possibly do wrong, whereas he can pay professionals (probably less) to do the job right once?

As far as the chassis to put this in... I would go w/a 4th gen Lude or Civic

You act like it some impossible, super duper difficult thing to measure and do basic addition and subtraction.



With the appropriate tools in hand, and the knowledge to assemble it correctly, it really isnt that big of a deal. Im going to go out on a limb and say that you have never paid a machine shop the 500-800 they want in labor alone- JUST to assemble the rotational assembly. Or, if you have, you definetly haven't done it yourself and realized that the 200-300 in tools was worth the investment because it really is not that hard at all. Its time consuming and elaborate.


It is not rocket science. You don't even have to use multiplication or division.




Measure diameter of rod journal. Measure crank journal for rod location. Subtract crank journal size from from rod journal size.


Take that number, and subtract the desired clearance. The remaining number, order bearings in that size within your desired tolerance. If you need to alter bearings, count how many strokes with sand paper and do it carefully on each side.



Thats all you do to get rod's in correctly. Assuming they are balanced out of the box, and correctly assembled with wrist pin and piston. Machine shop should always be used for seating piston on rods. (my opinion)



Measure block journal for main bearings. Measure crank journal diameter. Subtract crank journal from block journal size. Take that number, subtract desired clearance.


Sound familiar? Ok, so whats next then?



Did I just teach you how to install a crank and rod combo?



Basically, I sure did just drop the basics on you. Sound difficult? Obviously you want to repeat this process for every journal/bearing, they will all be a tiny bit different.

Now that its all assembled, check end play. Check resistance on the crank. If it requires more than 30 ft/lbs of torque to turn crank, start over with looser clearances. If your endplay is out of spec, your assembly isn't tight enough.


Thats the jyst of it.



Checking piston to wall clearance is cake. Google that shit.







People should stop being so intimidated by putting together a rotational assembly. It is time consuming, it is not that hard.

Umm....I'm pretty sure the title says "CyborgGT's Build"?

lol

It's just too easy to have them knock it out while they're already sleeving the cylinders and machining everything.

Nothing wrong with that. I personally would rather do it myself. Sounds like you'll be looking at something close to $2000-$2,500 in machine shop charges. They'll want $500-$800 in labor alone to assemble everything. Most of the time anyways.


Maybe they will work a deal out with you.


Either way, don't psyche yourself out of doing it, in lieu of fear. It really isnt that hard my friend.

[gloryaccordy]

What happens when you take off too much material?

And $800 for what you describe as not a lot of work sounds pretty crazy. Machine shops in NYC charge $100-150/hr, you mean to tell me what you described amounts to 6-8 hours of work?

I'm not usually one to run from getting my hands dirty but sometimes taking it to a shop is just insurance. If you are the kind of person who plans to do a ton of builds I see learning the process as being worth it, but for a one time thing why not take it to a shop?

[CyborgGT]

Nothing wrong with that. I personally would rather do it myself. Sounds like you'll be looking at something close to $2000-$2,500 in machine shop charges. They'll want $500-$800 in labor alone to assemble everything. Most of the time anyways.


Maybe they will work a deal out with you.


Either way, don't psyche yourself out of doing it, in lieu of fear. It really isnt that hard my friend.

That cost sounds about what I had guessed, with the way I like to give myself a pretty decent 'safety buffer' so I don't walk out in debt. I think I've got roughly $8000 in parts thought up, and expected it all to cost just over $10,000 by the time I'm driving. I'm definitely not afraid of the work. I think I mentioned in here that I did a teardown+reassembly of an engine at school, which did include all the measurements. I trust myself to do the work, and will do the bulk of the engine assmebly, but at least with the crank and rod bearings I won't lose too much pride by having someone else who already has the measurements take care of it.

[Joey GT-R]

What happens when you take off too much material?

And $800 for what you describe as not a lot of work sounds pretty crazy. Machine shops in NYC charge $100-150/hr, you mean to tell me what you described amounts to 6-8 hours of work?

I have a friend who builds for a living, he might charge a little less than the shops locally do, roughly $105/hr if you want to compare to NYC rates. But he spends AT LEAST a week on the build. He triple checks everything. If something even slightly feels off he takes it apart. To include replacing a bearing or two here and there at his OWN EXPENSE. His customers expect the build to last for years, so why not invest a little quality time in it. He could do the build overnight if he wanted, but he takes pride in his work.

[gloryaccordy]

That cost sounds about what I had guessed, with the way I like to give myself a pretty decent 'safety buffer' so I don't walk out in debt. I think I've got roughly $8000 in parts thought up, and expected it all to cost just over $10,000 by the time I'm driving. I'm definitely not afraid of the work. I think I mentioned in here that I did a teardown+reassembly of an engine at school, which did include all the measurements. I trust myself to do the work, and will do the bulk of the engine assmebly, but at least with the crank and rod bearings I won't lose too much pride by having someone else who already has the measurements take care of it.

Ah I missed that. Yea then maybe investing in the tools is the right idea.

[toycar]

I have a friend who builds for a living, he might charge a little less than the shops locally do, roughly $105/hr if you want to compare to NYC rates. But he spends AT LEAST a week on the build. He triple checks everything. If something even slightly feels off he takes it apart. To include replacing a bearing or two here and there at his OWN EXPENSE. His customers expect the build to last for years, so why not invest a little quality time in it. He could do the build overnight if he wanted, but he takes pride in his work.

A week? My ass, not from an expierenced engine builder. Not a steady, all day every day week. No freakin way.


On a 4 cylinder engine there are only 9 journals to get straight. Dealing with a quality company, like Clevite, 9/10 times you don't even have to alter the bearing.



***Edit***


Just wanted to say that my comment is based on assembly as that was the way the OP came across.


It would never take an engine builder a week to do an engine. If they are doing extensive machine work and all kinds of custom shit, than MAYBE

[Joey GT-R]

I'm not saying he puts in a week worth of man hours. I'm just saying he's a meticulous person, kinda eccentric in a way. He's thrown many engines together in hours if he needs to; but we just let him do his thing. I think a week turnaroud isn't that bad for any engine build. You send it off to major shops and it's easily double or triple that, unless you pay their "express/convenience" fee.

[toycar]

I'm not saying he puts in a week worth of man hours. I'm just saying he's a meticulous person, kinda eccentric in a way. He's thrown many engines together in hours if he needs to; but we just let him do his thing. I think a week turnaroud isn't that bad for any engine build. You send it off to major shops and it's easily double or triple that, unless you pay their "express/convenience" fee.

I'll agree that one week turn around time is pretty good from a shop.


It only takes me 4-6 hours to assemble a rotational assembly, assuming all the machine work and bearings are correct from square one.






And I forgot to mention what happens when you take off too much material;


After that happens once, you learn to count your strokes and sand bearings correctly. The initial mistake, costs you an extra hundred bux or so.

[KeeleDesign]

hows the build coming along?

[CyborgGT]

Not well. I just moved into a cheap apartment so I could fund this project and then a couple weeks ago I had to go to the emergency room. Just under $3k for 8 stitches at the moment, but I'm waiting to hear back from my insurance. Needless to say, it's setting me back. Maybe it's ironic, but it was pulling the valve seals on my head that did the damage when the seal pliers slipped. I thought it was stupid to pay upwards of $200 for a proper tool I'd only use once (and even less for a shop to do it), and now here I am

As of now the plan is to get some things done to the RSX that I really want done so I'm not so horribly bored during the H-build (retrofitted headlights, rear sway, cat-back, Mugen hood to replace the dented stocker), plus a couple big things I need for the apartment, then about half of the H parts should be in hand by year's end. 2015 is complete focus on the build, which should be done and driving by Fall of that year (with the RSX even being paid off soon after, woot!). Slow project, but that's my situation right now.

[CyborgGT]

I realized I never posted a detailed list of the planned parts. So, if anyone's interested:

- AEM V2 with custom filter enclosure (helps keep intake pressure up)
- Professional Products 68mm ITR throttle body
- Euro-R intake manifold prepped by Rosko Racing (RDX fuel rail & injectors*, port-matched to 68mm)
- Bisimoto thermal manifold gasket

- Supertech guides, dish valves, springs, retainers, keepers, seals
- Skunk 2 Pro 1 cams
- Bisimoto cam gears

- ARP head & main studs
- Wiseco 11.5:1 (re-sleeve, of course)
- Eagle rods
- ATI street damper

- Bisimoto V3 stainless ceramic header (will be a one-piece whether Bisi does it for me or a local shop does)
- I also have a Spoon header that mates to the stock downpipe; that will be enlarged to 2.5" - I don't want to get rid of this rare header, and it'll be interesting to compare the two
- Vibrant/Kteller 2.5" mandrel & stainless exhaust system
- Catco cat 6906
- Vibrant Ultra Quiet resonator (x2)
- Magnaflow oval muffler

- I think I'll be going with an AEM Series 2 EMS, since I want a COP conversion later
- AEM gauges: exhaust temp, fuel press, oil press, wideband A/F
- RyWire harness w/grounds

- AEM FPR
- Walbro 255 pump
* Though I'm looking into E85-compatible pump and injectors, should I decide to switch in the future.

- Evans waterless coolant
- Koyo R-series rad
- Mishimoto fans
- Samco hoses
- Header wrap and heat tape to keep temps down in certain areas

- All machine work and tune at PFI Speed of Johnstown, CO

*ED. - Intake choice changed: K&N Apollo. The plan with the AEM V2 was to create a custom enclosure to both seal incoming air from engine heat and also keep stock-like air pressure ready at the inlet. I just found out about this kinda old product of K&N's. Saves me all that custom labor and about $200, and I can connect it to the AEM short ram I already have. Just have to figure out where to route the ducting.