Project Turbo CA5 in effect! Looking for the CHEAPEST route!

[deevergote]

Ok, here's the deal: Some of you probably know my plans by now. If not, I'll give you the rundown.

93twodoorLX and I are gonna build a turbo CA5 (3G hatch, I like chassis code designations ) He has (or will soon have) a T3 turbo that is in good shape. I plan on buying Steve's BOV, and the turbo already comes with an external wastegate. SO that stuff is taken care of.

I'm looking for a $500 5 speed LXi hatchback that runs. I KNOW they exist, cuz I've seen em go for that price. High mileage and crappy body panels are nothing. I don't care about looks yet. It just has to move!

I'll have to try to get on 3geez to get more detailed info... but for now, I'll stick with you guys. I know there are enough knowledgable people here to help me out! (Carlos, I may need to borrow your login name again...)

Anyway, what I'm looking for is the CHEAPEST route to turbo. I have the basics (or will when I get the car). I hope to get my friend's dad to either help me weld the piping, or teach me how to do it. I'm contemplating building my own header and exhaust, if I can learn how to weld. If not, where can I get a log manifold for an A20A? Anyone know? That's question #1

DSM 450 injectors can be had cheap anywhere... that's not a problem. Fuel management otherwise may be, however. What's the cheapest way to manage fuel? #2 right there!

Also, if anyone knows (this may be more of a 3geez question) what intercooler could I get to fit? I'm looking for any type... mainly front mount or top mount though. Top mount could always be heat-shielded and hood-scooped #3 folks

Finally, can anyone direct me to someplace that sells weld els? Gonna need em fo rcustom piping and the header (I hope I can learn to weld, dammit! ) Taht's #4, and I'l stop there for now


I'm looking to keep this whole project as cheap as possible. I want about 8psi, and I don't really WANT to blow up my project hatch... I don't want to drop too much money into it though, since I could easily make my CB7 so much better with that money! Say, $2500 max, with the cost of the car!

[akrodha]

do you have the hatch? I know where one is cheap, already gutted and set up for racing. no motor though.

[deevergote]

No hatch yet... Where is this one you speak of? Depending on the availibility of the engines, a motorless car may still be a good deal. How much is it?

[akrodha]

I'll find out today. I'm in TN.

[deevergote]

Cool... might be too far, but it's worth a look! Thanks!

[WiKKeDV16]

number 1 u can
the only person i know of who sells turbo manifolds for the 3g is sean 4-1 tubular which u know costs a decent penny but what i would do in ur situation is talk to beau from HMT and see how cheap he can hook u up with a manifold if provide him wih what u want he can build it lol.. he built jeffs TwinTurbo manifold.. anyway... umm.. so yeh..

:learn how to make it
:friends dad to make it
:talk to beau
:buy seans 4-1

number 2
cheapest way to manage fuel is definetly safc/afc hack
safc arnt exactly cheap if u look u may be able to score one for 250ish.. but yeh thats ur best bet..
options
:safc/450cc/hack=350 piggyback setup,not the best but cheap
:GM ECM sean of course=550 standalone management/tuneable

these are the only two options i would really consider.. to me..id spend the extra 200 on the GM ECM.. i mean standalone tuneability can = alot more power than with the piggyback

number 3
the 3gs front bumper just sucks for fmics...
the only thing i see fitting in there is the tyrus fmic
steven ATX had one (pics in classifieds) 30lenthx5tallx2xdeep
go for aound 250 on ebay and its from a reputable builder called johnnyRacecar everyone on HMT uses em there good up to 30psi so for ur 10-12psi its perfect the 3g front bumper has a pretty long opening.. how much of the bumper ull have to trim off i dunno but bleh.. im sure u can do it..

number 4
http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/...X&appId=391415
flex pipe for ur turbo header

header setup
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...61&cgrfnbr=841

J bends
http://www.ssheaders.com/JBends.htm

so yeh wih those links u can fab up ur own header.. as long as u have a flange.. might wanna talk to a20a1 from 3geez about flanges.. he had one for his custom 4-1 header



his header..
any other questions hit me up

Price check aisle4
GM ECM standalone=550
450cc=50
turbo manifold (beau makes = 250-300 including pipes
intercooler=tyrus(johnnyracecar)=250
charge pipes= jcwhitney.com=180 degree U-Bends=75max
silicon couplers=home depot=silicon couplers up the ass
gauges (psi) (a/f)=100 for both
stealthmode oil feed/return lines
http://www.stealthmodeperformance.com/oil.shtml
coolant lines=autozone and shit

grand total for everything is between 1500-600
so u got around 1g to buy a 3g.. hatchback.. if u find one real cheap 500-600.. u can invest in making the 3g moto more boost friendly incase its in bad condition u know.. new gaskets/fittings/tune up/etc
well ill shut up now..
lol holla back

C-los

[MRX]

what about the info in wiring the safc to the 3g ecu? I would assume getting the info would be a pain. Don't forget about the timing.

[WiKKeDV16]

not a pain.. is been done before.. the info is on 3geez just gotta look for it and about timing of course it would be retarded if he got the GM ECM standalone.. then he could adjust it correctly and more precise not to mention the accurace improvemet owns.. and with th 2 coils spark is definetly there

[blazen_accord]

1 more option to save cost for the intercooler and making custom IC pipe, is go with DSM side mount IC and water injection system, both will run less then $160 and you have less piping to do, less pipe air has to travel, meaning more air to make power.

at 8psi, SAFC and 450cc is nice, but dyno tuning session will rasie the total price. If you just want your turbo to run then go with stock injector and an used 10:1 FMU($60) and fuel pump($90). But to get the turbo/engine to run efficiently you need to spend 450cc and safc.

to save cost on timing u can retard the dizzy 2-3 degree, or get an MSD BTM but that will run ya around $300

now the above thing are not recommend (except SMIC /w water injection) if you can afford them. They will run but not as efficient as it should be=meaning 1psi would only net 5-6HP while an efficient system will need 9-15hp per psi. but those will need to be tweak with dyno and ECU tuning.

[WiKKeDV16]

umm ok.. lol i believe someone said the max u could get out of a turbo with good management was 8-9hp per psi.. so ur 9-15hp is like saying an ebay intake is gonna give u 10hp

DISREGARD the info on the fmu.. lets not go there..
an SMIC is till a heat sink.. so all ur doing with the water injection is counter-acting the heating..

a FMIC and water injection=pwns
but lets leave it at just fmic for now

dont quote me on how much hp per psi but an ass tune like safc and 450cc without dyno tuning= 5-6hp per psi bleh i think it was fizzbob who told me ur lucky to get 9hp per psi with good tuning...

dont bite my head of fizz i dont remember if it was u or someone else who told me that

[blazen_accord]

people using an t3/t4 at 8psi has dyno over 100whp, and drag strip racer ran on 25psi has got over 300whp increase, it possible but not for budget people. with my T25/T28 ported, I was able to achive on the dyno 12whp per psi at 14.1:1 a/f ratio which was very lean and end up blowing my motor less then 2 week. at around 12:0:1 a/f ratio I gain about 7hp per psi. I lean out and blew 2 motor less in 6 month so I know a bit about making power in the danger zone. but a well design turbo and Stand alone ecu manage system can make more then 9hp per psi.

fmic is good but dsm run 11psi-14psi on stock smic with no problem. I thought money was the object here, $2500 for a project car is no easy task, and he did not mention if this was a drag/strip car or not. where serious HP need to be made, I assume it was your daily driving car where it is tune for the street driving.

just my opinion on lowest cost and street drivable car, true it not as reliable or make the post power, but people don't have 5'g to drop like paper.

no hard felling just a friendly opinion barely worth 2 cent

[WiKKeDV16]

u stated exactly my point u BLEW 2 motors at that 12whp per psi level.. thats not to smart hot stuff. 7hp per psi is exactly what i meant. so i WAS ballpark figure right.. u leaned it out and blew it thats on u.. althoug i think the 3g could take the abuse gotta love that fucking block and for 2,500 he can make a HELL of a budget car just doesnt mean he has to go cheap on everything .. i talked with deever and he knows that with 2,500 u can turbo charger a hatch with breathing room sounds tough huh
back to my example
Price check :
GM ECM standalone=550
450cc=50
turbo manifold (beau makes = 250-300 including pipes
intercooler=tyrus(johnnyracecar)=250
charge pipes= jcwhitney.com=180 degree U-Bends=75max
silicon couplers=home depot=silicon couplers up the ass
gauges (psi) (a/f)=100 for both
stealthmode oil feed/return lines
http://www.stealthmodeperformance.com/oil.shtml
coolant lines=autozone and shit

grand total for everything is between 1500-600

1,600 covers the engine/turbo aspect he still has about a grand o by the car.. how much more budget do u want? lol? also i just personally hate Heatsinks.. and yes dsms are fine with them.. but ask ursef this..u wonder why so many of em sell so fucking cheap? and why so many dsm cars upgrade to a FMIC? because that damn heat sink is robbing power u can see a .5sec decrease in the 1/4 by the addition of a FMIC that is if ur boosting high enough to create a hot enough charge.. regardless FMIC>SMIC PERIOD! im sure u do know that if u had FMIC u would of made more than 185whp like u did

"I lean out and blew 2 motor less in 6 month so I know a bit about making power in the danger zone"

thats a lil controdictory... i guess u didnt learn from the first one? yet your giving advice on how to build up setups. no offense but first correct your own mistakes before tackling others...

not trying to be a smart ass either

[blazen_accord]

Good luck on the project deevergote, and keep us posted.
Sorry sometime I get sidetrack and get personal easy, WiKKeDV16 setup is good. U should be safe with that, one word of caution through, turbo a car is more expensive then it look, but from the setup listed you should have an extra grand for odd and end... Next we meet I show you an turbo h22a car with an SAFC tune that does 13whp per psi and safe A/f ratio 12:5:1 and a chiped P28 If I don't go broke first

[WiKKeDV16]

here are some REAL dyno examples

90 CRX dx
ZC dohc
TCO5A at 7-15psi -boos control issues
2.5" exhaust
2" charge pipes
non intercooled
Zydne Gold ecu
148whp 154tq remember boost issues

88 CRX hf
b18a
T3 .60/.63 at 11psi
3" exhaust
2.5" charge pipes
Tyrus F-M-I-C
turboedit 2.0 ECU
198whp 216tq

now if b18a has 140hp crank
140hp minus 15% drivetrain lose =119ish whp
so
198whp
-119whp
= 79hp increase
now he ran 11psi
7.1hp per psi on that setup lol and im doing bad in my geometry class ahhaah

last example
95 civic ex
d16z6
t3 .60/48 10psi
G-gerth turbo manifold
3" exhaust
2.5" charge pipes
Tyrus F-M-I-C
Uberdata ECU
216whp 181tq
again a stock D16z6 akes 130Fhp minus 15%=110.5Whp
216whp
-110.5Whp
=105.5WHP increase
Divided by 10psi
=10.55hp per psi

ok im done fo the night as my examples show on a street driven car boost per psi range between 7-11hp

good-nite folks lol im dont ranting