Step-by-step custom turbo. Is this good info?

[deevergote]

http://www.cse.uconn.edu/~yelevich/turbo/turbo.html

The information is for an Integra, but I don't see why it wouldn't be just as useful for F and H series engines in a CB7.

For all you guys that already have turbo setups (or have done extensive research in planning one): Is this good info? Is there anything important that the author left out, or simply glazed over as if it were unimportant?

I was originally thinking about building a turbo from used parts, and was talked out of it. I then looked at a kit, and after working a buildup into my figures I got somewhere over $7000! This site renewed my interest in building my own, part by part (so I can afford it).

I'm going to use this thread for all my turbo questions, so all the answers and suggestions will be in the same place. Hopefully it'll become a good source of info for anyone building a turbo H22 (and F22, possibly.)

[Fearit22]

Even if you are scared of doing it yourself I have talked to many people who are very happy with custom turbo kits and they are definitely much much cheaper. Does anyone know if they make a turbo manifold for the f22 or would I need that custom made? My turbo plans seem so much closer now...

[deevergote]

That's what I'm looking for... good sources.

I'm not really even sure where to begin... I can't afford much, especially not all at one time. I hope to buy a part here and there, and eventually have everything I need! I know myself well enough to know that I won't be able to save up enough to buy everything in one shot.

So... On with the questions! Hopefully this thread will become a useful source of info for others in my situation, which I'm sure there are many! I'm specifically asking about boosting a JDM H22A, in case it matters in what you may have to say.

1) Where should I start? I know it's probably preference for the most part, but what would be my best starting point? I was thinking of the low-boost turbo system first, buying each piece for under $200. Of course, like fizzbob said, 5-7psi won't be that impressive, and it'll still most likely wear on the engine.

2)Would I be better off building the engine for higher boost before I start on assembling (buying the parts for) the turbo setup? If I do that, will I be sacrificing power? I'm sure lowering my compression from 10:6 to something in the 8 or 9 range would cause my engine to put out less power... Of course, I really don't know! Maybe there are other things I can do that will increase my current NA output, and be well suited to turbo as well?

3) What exactly do I need to do to build up my engine. I know stronger rods and pistons are necessary. As for other things, like sleeving the block and stuff, I'm completely clueless. Any suggestions on what to do, what to buy, how much money certain things will be, what gains (if any) would result, and how important things are would be more than welcome! (That sentence sucks, I know...)

4) What other things would be necessary? Fuel management, fuel delivery, etc... Anything that isn't a direct part of the engine or turbo system. I have some vague ideas, but I want to get all the detailed info I can get! Again, the same questions as above apply. Cost, effectiveness, importance, etc...


That's it for now. I'll be back with more later, I'm sure! Thanks to everyone for the help (both past and future!) This will be an ongoing thread, where I'll post all my turbo questions Better than whoring up the whole board!

[Fearit22]

I meant to ask a couple other questions as well. Does anyone have any idea of the capabilities of the stock crank on the f22? I know it would be wise to replace it but I'm just wondering how much it can handle. Also are there any advantages/disadvantages of internal to external wastegates?
To fizzbob: Sorry that came out wrong but I definitely plan on building my own kit because I have had experience with how shitty prefabricated parts can be.
To deevergote: Rods and pistons are the most important things for building your engine for a turbo. Depending on how much boost you want to run you may want to get your engine resleeved and a new crankshaft as well. Resleeving it protects the engine from the high amounts of pressure the turbo puts out where your old stock sleeves would crack and ruin the engine. It would also be a good idea to get a high strength head gasket and possibly even one that will lower your compression even more.

[deevergote]

Thanks! A head gasket is something I hadn't thought of!

[Fearit22]

I will definitely be replacing that too because I want to be able to run around 15 psi when I need to. Well I was wanting to get the head ported and polished but besides resleeving it is there anything else I can do? I was thinking about getting a hondata because I have heard so much good stuff about them. I am still ignorant about them though...what models/prices am I looking at?
Doing everything all at once and doing it right without being cheap are critical to making sure everything goes well.

[limeaccord]

lower compression forged pistons

wha? why!? stock is 8.8:1. that's perfect for turbo.

[Fearit22]

I'm pretty happy with cam I have now(Gude). I hear that their head is pretty good too but I think it would probably be cheaper to get it done at a shop..

[deevergote]

Man, not having money is frustrating! I browse ebay every now and then to see what I can find... today I found this stuff:

H22A4 block - $255 (4 hours left)
H22A Turbo Manifold ($175)
H22 Prelude H23 Stroker Crank 2.4L Flywheel Oilpan (BIN $250)
H22 Skunk 2 race head w/ header,vcover,intake ($255 1 day left)
Numerous T3 turbos for under $150 (in varying conditions)


I know I would need lots more, and some of that stuff may be unnecessary, but the prices seem pretty good these days! I'm glad Honda tuning is pretty much "out" as far as trends go! (That's how it seems, anyway...)

[deevergote]

to fizzbob:
Aren't all H22s open deck (or all Honda engines, even?)
I know it's possible to close the deck, though I don't know how much it would cost. I'm planning on figuring that into my engine work...along with P&P, valve job, sleeving, overbore (or whatever... I want to go to 2.4L, I think)

Still, if I can find a newer H22A4 block for under $300 on ebay, I should be able to find an older H22A block easily enough! I hope, anyway! If I can get a spare block to work on for very little money, I should be able to build a nice setup.

Question
Any ideas on how much it would cost me to have the block worked? I'm figuring on spending about $1500 or so for the head (going by Gude's prices, I'm sure everyone else is competitive). If I can build a turbo-worthy engine for under $4000, I'll be incredibly happy! (since it cost me close to $5000 for my entire setup now... and it's basically a stock H22A setup!)


additional ramblings about my future plans
My tentative plans now are to build a 'new' H22A engine, rather than bothering with the one I'm running now. Then I think I'll try to find a CB7 with a seized engine (hopefully in decent condition otherwise) and turn that into my project car. My car looks like crap now, so it might not be worth my time to try to restore and customize it. I can continue to buy parts for it from time to time, as long as they can be transferred to the new car when the time comes.

Thanks for reading, if you did... I put titles in just in case you don't feel like reading my little novel!

[deevergote]

Cool, thanks! For some reason I thought all H22s had open decks... I guess my plan for going with a 92-96 block was a good one from the start! (The A4 block wasn't really something I wanted, I was just commenting on the price of it)

[Fearit22]

I have heard mixed opinions about the lightweight flywheel on boosted applications. I have heard they are good and help eliminate lag but other people say that they aren't good for boost. Any explanation?

[Fearit22]

I was just wondering because I plan on turboing but I was going to buy a flywheel pretty soon and didn't want to waste the money if I wouldn't really need it. Now for some more questions... I was wondering what type of material/metal should be used for piping on my turbo like to and from the intercooler and should I ceramic coat it to help keep it cool? As for this article do I need any other computer management if I want to just run about 7 psi until I build my engine. What size piping and what dimension intercooler would be best for the f22 so I don't have too much lag but I can still boost high later on when I want to. Can I still run a stock ignition safely? I also hear that turbos don't like much backpressure so would it hurt anything to run an exhaust with an open cat when I do turbo?

[HondaFan81]

Okay, so you're saying that in a turbo system, the turbo generates enough low end torque in itself, that freeing up the rest of the exhaust system (downpipe, cat, exhaust, striaght thru muffler) to a 3" will not significantly decrease it? That it's actually more beneficial to the turbo system as a whole to do this then?

I can see that you'd want some backpressure on NA motors because you'd lose the low end torque, which you'd prolly want to keep the most of.

[deevergote]

Originally posted by HondaFan81
Okay, so you're saying that in a turbo system, the turbo generates enough low end torque in itself, that freeing up the rest of the exhaust system (downpipe, cat, exhaust, striaght thru muffler) to a 3" will not significantly decrease it? That it's actually more beneficial to the turbo system as a whole to do this then?

I can see that you'd want some backpressure on NA motors because you'd lose the low end torque, which you'd prolly want to keep the most of.

You would need a 3" exhaust for a turbo system to flow properly. Any less would create too much backpressure. Too bad I just paid for a 2.5" system! Exhaust is something I know a bit about... One of the few things...