How Much Psi Is To Much

[boost_92]

Apparently all of you who say don't turbo a show car know nothing about the show car scene. you build a show car to win. Am I right? To win you need points. To earn points you need to do things that shouldn't be done (and make them work)! Therefore a TURBO, SUPERCHARGER, ANY SWAP, NOS, or an EXTREME HYBRID = POINTS In your eyes it's a waste of parts in mine it means i'm gonna have to add more shelves in my trophy room. Maybe i'll show you how it's done someday at a show but i won't get to see your rides cause they will be in the parking lot with the rest of the regular daily driver cars.


And as for the civic that runs 12's. YES i know how fast you have to be to run 12's i've seen him do it. He also has an 11 second civic coupe. (ALL MOTOR) and an 11 sec. Nissan Sentra (SR20DET)
As for time slips --- it's not my car but i'll see what i can do.:booty: Dont hate the players. Hate the game.

Arguing on the net is like running in the Special Olympics. No matter who wins. They are still retarded.

[chessboxer]

function dictates and form follows in my book, thats why show cars arent my cup of tea. If thats what you like thats cool, its just not for me. we have different beginning principles, so the idea of an argument here could never go anywhere.
but regardless, good luck with it, and when these guys give advice, they usually arent talking nonsense, heed their advice, and dont just dismiss it as mere opinion.

[Fearit22]

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to hate on your car or whatever I'm just saying that anyone I've talked to has said on the Accord the stock injectors are pretty much maxed out already. I understand that most real show cars aren't driven on the street. If you aren't really going to drive it much then the stuff I was saying you need might not be necessary, but if you do it's not going to last long if you skimp out on certain stuff.

[boost_92]

That's cool. I'm not tryin to be a smart ass but you just have to understand my point of view. Iwas just asking for some suggestions not to be critisized or punked. The way i see things is that I don't personally know any of you and you don't know me. There are people in this world who will say anything to screw with other people. I was just expressing what I know works cause I have seen it with my own eyes. I guess trust is an issue.
Thanks to all of you who gave fact not opinion.

Here's a few pics of my ride at Hot Import Daze, pittsburgh last year. (b4 boost)

[deevergote]

Well, if they turbo you're using won't push any lower than 8psi, and you manage to set it up so it never goes that high, then you'll be perfectly safe! The turbo itself won't actually be doing anything, but the setup will be there, and it'll still technically be working...

I know a few show guys myself. There is a big difference between the show people and the performance people... Unfortunately, the performance people usually do make fun of the show guys, casuing them to be overly defensive.

I do understand where the performance guys are coming from though, since this is a performance question. My answer, plain and simple is: If you don't need the boost, don't worry about how high you can set it. If it's measured at shows, then I understand. If not, just set it up and keep it really low!

[boost_92]

One thing you don't realize is that if the performance guys make fun of show guys they still pay money to attend the shows and to get new ideas. If they didn't attend the shows then they couldn't make fun of show guys and there cars now could they. and if it wasn't for show guys the performance guys would never know about performance products or swaps cause thats where alot of the stuff is released for the first time. another reason i think perf. guys make fun is because they are a little jealous that we have what they have and more. plus our cars usually look better. Believe me i know where your commin from. I have friends who clown show guys but you know what they are always there just tryin to get a trophy. And when they don't that is there excuse (this car was built for performance not show. Wanna Race?) Maybe the Performance guys need to grow up. Jealousy will get you nowhere.

[Fearit22]

They don't have to attend the shows to make fun. I think he is referring to them making fun of what they do and not their cars specifically. Can't we all just get along heh... I'm not going to make fun of anyone for what they want to do with their car, except for ricers, but even then we all love our cars and if you're doing what makes you happy then go for it.

[MRX]

Re: How Much Psi Is To Much

Originally posted by boost_92
HERE'S THE LAYOUT. DSM 14B TURBO, CUSTOM STAINLESS MANIFOLD, TYRUS FRONT MOUNT IC, HALLMAN MANUAL BOOST CONTROLLER, MSD BTM, VORTECH 12:1 FMU, WALBRO 255LPH FUEL PUMP, BLITZ TURBO TIMER/BOOST GAUGE, TURBO X RFL TYPE-S BLOW OFF VALVE. NO COMPUTER UPGRADES NO X-TRA INJECTORS NO STAND ALONE ANYTHING. MY QUESTION IS HOW MUCH BOOST WILL MY F22 STAND UP TO B4 IT BLOWS?

i'm boosting the f22 also and after extensive research on my project yours is just about right. But the FMU and no way to adequately adjust fuel with the air coming in is your problem. Basically don't get the FMU and get a S-AFC and a fuel pressure regulator instead. Although u aren't doing standalone i still wouldn't trust just tricking the stock ecu into not seeing boost because your relying on it to add fuel to your air and if theres not enough fuel in ANY application be it forced or N/A it WILL detonate. Don't rely on what your friends civic did, what integra melted what pistons and so on because none of them had a f22 under the hood did they? But i really think you should get some injectors and a S-AFC atleast and get it tuned. With some good dyno tuning i've seen 12 psi on stock internals on an f22 but they had a good fuel delivery and correction setup.

[deevergote]

I have respect for the show guys. It's not something I can fully understand, since I personally would rather feel my mods than just see them. Still, I chose performance because a fairly impressive car performance-wise is far cheaper than a similarly respectable show car. It's mad expenisve to build a show car worth looking at!

I think performance guys diss the show guys because of the true "ricers" out there... the "my car is phat as hell, look at my 3' aluminum wing and alteeeezas!" people...
The show guys, on the other hand, see the performance crowd mainly as stoplight racers with beat-up junkers. The guys who rev at grandma in her Pinto...

I respect anything done correctly, and anyone who has the desire to learn the correct ways to do things.


My only beef is that it's such a shame to have such a beautiful looking car and not drive it!

[Andrew]

A while back in this thread a melted piston was mentioned. I'd like to point out that this has nothing to do with who made whatever engine management system the car was using. A melted piston would be the direct result of somebody that didn't know what he or she was doing setting the mixture far too lean. Ever heard of an Oxy-Acetelyne Cutting torch? It happens to be the same as an Oxy-Acetelyne welder, but with a higher oxygen content.

In that same post I noted that the F was being compared to some B series, and a D series engine. Guys, these are vastly different motors. You can't assume that because the injectors on a D16 are fine for moderate boost that F injectors will be as well. You're looking at over half a liter change in displacement, in an altogether different engine than what it's being compared to. As it stands, the D series engines are rather well known for being, how to put it, "boost friendly."

Overestimating the factory components is a much more fatal flaw to make than underestimating them. You're going to run more than 6 or 7 psi? You're going to need bigger injectors for an F series motor. Further, you're going to have to install a rising rate fuel pressure regulator to make use of the extra fuel that you'll need to supply. You probably aren't going to want to do this on the factory fuel pump, it's likely to be on it's last legs, anyways. I realize you've got some of these covered, but going over it isn't going to hurt anyone. (I'd stay the hell away from that Vortech RRFPR... if you're going to call "tuning" your friend than that product is the enemy.)

And as for the insults between the crowds. Lets get one thing very, very straight: you cannot compare show cars and race cars. Whatever Johhny Rocket says, a real race car, not your "friend's friend's 12 second CRX street fighter", is built with a completely different goal in mind than a show car builder. I've read a few fallacies lurking around this thread. To name just a few: you're restricted by race class to which modifications you can have, in Honda Challenge, for example, you have to race with the NSX's and B18 CRX's if you're going to put an H22 in your Accord. The primary goal of a race motor is to run reliably at high sustained stress levels, after that, if you happen to have cash leftover, you spend money on performance.... but you probably won't have enough money leftover to do that. Back on topic, neither group understands the other, nor do they want to. I won't go near a show with a 10 foot pole. But it's not like the bickering is something that has developed between ONLY these factions - I'm a state champion track cyclist, we get picked on by the mountain racers, the mountain racers get picked on by the roadies, the roadies get picked on by the trials guys, vice versa, and so forth. Don't turn it into something it's not - getting mad about something of that nature, well, isn't worth it.

[chessboxer]

Originally posted by boost_92
One thing you don't realize is that if the performance guys make fun of show guys they still pay money to attend the shows and to get new ideas. If they didn't attend the shows then they couldn't make fun of show guys and there cars now could they. and if it wasn't for show guys the performance guys would never know about performance products or swaps cause thats where alot of the stuff is released for the first time. another reason i think perf. guys make fun is because they are a little jealous that we have what they have and more. plus our cars usually look better. Believe me i know where your commin from. I have friends who clown show guys but you know what they are always there just tryin to get a trophy. And when they don't that is there excuse (this car was built for performance not show. Wanna Race?) Maybe the Performance guys need to grow up. Jealousy will get you nowhere.

Growing up involves not saying childish things. childish things include reverting the argument back to a jealousy base. to be honest i cant stand all that fucking chrome and busy ass kitting and chrome and more chrome. Does this make me jealous due to your postulate presented, that i'm jealous because you have what i have and more? According to you it does, but to me, i see that as a logically false statement and therefore any conclusion drawn from it cant be accepted as true and valid. So dont talk to me about being jealous when jealous doesnt involve making me sick to see your car.
thank you and good day sir.

[MRX]

Originally posted by Andrew

Don't turn it into something it's not - getting mad about something of that nature, well, isn't worth it.

yea can we please get back to the fuel management question cause your about to make a big mistake if your not running any ecu upgrades whatsoever.

[boost_92]

Due to recent posts I have looked into bigger injectors. A friend of mine is selling some 330 injectors from a prelude would that be suffishent? I plan on running between 6 and 10psi of boost.

Don't get me wrong I do drive the car to local shows it only gets trailered to shows out of state. But I can say that I don't drive it as much as I should. I just have to many other toys. This summer the car will probably sit more than usual due to my recent infatuation with stunting on my sportbike and Quad. Iguess you could say i have to many hobbies to devote all of my time to my Accord.

As for chessboxer's comments --- I'm not holding a gun to your head and making you look at my BIG CHROME WHEELS, HUGE BODYKIT, CUSTOM PAINT or when I make my car DANCE ON AIRBAGS. Now am I? So it makes you sick to look at it. I can assure you that I'm not gonna lose any sleep over that. And your car would probably have the same effect on me. Now you have a good day and keep on keepin on.

[chessboxer]

Originally posted by boost_92

As for chessboxer's comments --- I'm not holding a gun to your head and making you look at my BIG CHROME WHEELS, HUGE BODYKIT, CUSTOM PAINT or when I make my car DANCE ON AIRBAGS. Now am I? So it makes you sick to look at it. I can assure you that I'm not gonna lose any sleep over that. And your car would probably have the same effect on me. Now you have a good day and keep on keepin on.

i never said anything about a gun, and i never said anything about you losing sleep, so if you want to address the problem of you haveing a fallacious argument thats fine, i will respond with due consideration to the things you say. and as for the things you just said, you missed the point completely, which in and of itself, is another fallacy of reasoning. So good day, and good night good sir.

[deevergote]

Ok, who slapped who first with the white riding glove?

boost_92, you did kinda come off defensive unnecessarily. It seems you apparently presumed that the performance people would down your show car, and prematurely offended some... That caused the performance guys to respond by doing exactly what you expected, which was defend their point of view.

Chessboxer actually said that the whole show car things was cool, just not his thing. It wasn't until you made the "grow up" comment that he got defensive (putting him even with you).

Now, understand that no one here has said your car was stupid, or that you were stupid for having a show car... You're acting like everyone is making fun of you, when everyone here has tried to offer advice (or defend themselves.) Even wikkedv16 has been pretty cool so far, and he's the most outwardly opinionated guy on this board (often seen as a jerk until you get to know him a little... sorry wikked... )

There's my rant (I may not be a mod, but I admit I act like one sometimes...) now play nice! I've said it before, and I'll say it again: This site is all about customizing your CB7. "Customizing" means doing your own thing, whether it be for show, power, or both! So far, it seems that everyone here understands that.