All-out CB7 build to race bikes - need advice from the gurus

[rexload]

Well, it looks like very soon I will be starting a new project and I have my heart set on a CB7...

I want to go all-out straight-line-acceleration with this build. I want to be able to run with modded 600 cc bikes. A "street fun" build, so to say.

My main concerns are :

1. Safety. Obviously tires of proper rating and new brand-name brake components. Should a cage/quality seat/4pt harness be installed in the car?

2. Suspension modifications. All bushings and fasteners will be replaced and I would like to have a good spring/strut combo rather than coilovers. What about suspension stiffness? I am assuming too soft will transfer too much weight to the rear "from a dig"; but too stiff will not be as stable at high speeds. Can somebody who actually knows how to tune suspension chime in on this?

3. Engine/powerband and gearing.
Assuming that the car will weigh the same as stock (after interior removal but also after the addition of turbo components and large sway bars, etc), how much "ballpark" power do I need for my goals? I would like to shoot for 550whp but make sure I have some head room to go up closer to 600. Does this sound right?

I am also assuming I want an engine setup with more of a peaky powerband. What is a cost-effective way of doing this? sleeved H22? sleeved H22 with F22 crankshaft hybrid? Any other options that are a better bang-for-the-buck?

What about gearing?
Also, what about transaxle durability? Assuming power will be limited to about 270hp in 1st gear, will a stock F/H transmission take the abuse?

4. Putting power down on the street.
I understand that I picked the wrong chassis for effectively putting power down, but nevertheless, I see Hondas running very fast times (mostly Civics though). Other than a quality traction bar and drag radial tires; what are some other things to consider for putting the power down to the pavement?

[Apexbender]

IMO if you want to drag race you should go with a sleeved engine with a bigger displacement (2.2, 2.3, or a V-6 swap). The CB is a "heavy" car, if you want to go fast you need torque. Turbo should be the way to go if you want big numbers. Maybe you could do a K24/K20 swap, there is a lot of options to go with, but the one you choose to go with, you'll have enough tech support here and in other websites. TSX 6 speed tranny is a good choice, but you can re-gear any tranny to fit your needs. The drive shaft shop can make high hp rated axles and you will need a wide track for better traction. I think your list has a bunch of good things and it is pretty complete. Good luck with the build.

[Jarrett]

Do you understand that any factory 600cc sportbike is going to be in the high 10s right out of the box? That's with someone who's not a complete reject in the saddle. Any gearing, performance or suspension modifications will greatly improve even that. I have a GSX-R 750 that's pretty modded and it's really not even a challenge with most cars that are on the street. I don't street race anymore but there are some pretty fast cars that I've been able to beat with that bike. Honestly, I'd come up with a different goal. To accomplish this you would hands down have the fastest CB on this site.

[Macaqueistrong]

Talk to NWaccord. He has more power than what you are trying to acheive and is facing alot of the issues that you are asking about.

[SOHC-FTW]

What size slicks are you going to run? what suspension and traction bars? How much weight are you willing to truly shed? Willing to go F/H2b?

Power is great, but power to weight and hooking up is what you're going to need to look into.

[rexload]

IMO if you want to drag race you should go with a sleeved engine with a bigger displacement (2.2, 2.3, or a V-6 swap). The CB is a "heavy" car, if you want to go fast you need torque. Turbo should be the way to go if you want big numbers. Maybe you could do a K24/K20 swap, there is a lot of options to go with, but the one you choose to go with, you'll have enough tech support here and in other websites. TSX 6 speed tranny is a good choice, but you can re-gear any tranny to fit your needs. The drive shaft shop can make high hp rated axles and you will need a wide track for better traction. I think your list has a bunch of good things and it is pretty complete. Good luck with the build.

Thanks. I'd like to keep it F/H series due to simplicity and cost. Just a stock V6 swap would probably cost nearly the same as a fully built and sleeved F/H.

As for axles, I remember someone on this board saying that OEM Honda axles are the strongest. I remember reading something about Accord/Prelude axle hybrids being stronger than aftermarket. Can anybody confirm this?

Do you understand that any factory 600cc sportbike is going to be in the high 10s right out of the box? That's with someone who's not a complete reject in the saddle. Any gearing, performance or suspension modifications will greatly improve even that. I have a GSX-R 750 that's pretty modded and it's really not even a challenge with most cars that are on the street. I don't street race anymore but there are some pretty fast cars that I've been able to beat with that bike. Honestly, I'd come up with a different goal. To accomplish this you would hands down have the fastest CB on this site.

Well, no doubt that bikes are brutally fast.. and I've never owned one as they scare the shit out of me. But here is my logic: if nearly full-weight Integras get into 10s with roughly 550whp or so - and they aren't that much lighter than an LX trim CB7 (as an example), then that's about the power that is theoretically needed to keep up with a stock 600cc on the freeway.

What size slicks are you going to run? what suspension and traction bars? How much weight are you willing to truly shed? Willing to go F/H2b?

Power is great, but power to weight and hooking up is what you're going to need to look into.

No slicks as this build will be for the street. As for the size of tires - I don't have any idea.

Traction bar - I was going to look into the ESP unit.

Suspension - my thoughts are to run something that has proven reliability such as Neuspeed springs and Koni yellow struts. But I could be completely wrong here.

How much weight I am willing to shed - willing to get rid of everything I can without compromising my safety.. plus the car has to be legal to drive on the street.

I would possibly go H2B - I believe all I would need is: to make a tranny mount, make a shifter mount, and get a custom axle made. But what would be the benefit? Because the B tranny is more durable?

[SOHC-FTW]

You're not going to hit 10's with out atleast slicks something bigger than a 22 IMO.

Supension for drag is more involved than just slapping springs on, you'll want rake which helps put the power toward the front.

If you're gutting besides a seat and dash why not go all out?

The b series trans is used due to gearing upgrading the syncro's is a must reguardless with that out put IMO.

[rexload]

You're not going to hit 10's with out atleast slicks something bigger than a 22 IMO.

It is going to be a street build. Planning on driving on the street. Once it is drivable and tuned; then I'll start thinking about hitting the track.

Supension for drag is more involved than just slapping springs on, you'll want rake which helps put the power toward the front.

Understood. That's why I am asking for advice.

If you're gutting besides a seat and dash why not go all out?

Car has to pass safety inspection to be on the street legally.

The b series trans is used due to gearing upgrading the syncro's is a must reguardless with that out put IMO.

Gearing as in a B16 tranny? I think would be hitting rev limit in 5th quite often if I went that route.

[Sordz]

I there even anyone who has done a b series tranny in a cb7? Pretty sure it's just for civics and tegs so the axles are at a better angle, even if you could get it to work you would probably have to have different motor mounts made for the rit angle and in the end would cost way more than just getting a gear set for a h trans and you would just have a stock b series which is just as weak as any.

From a roll you will take out 600's.

[92accord ex]

Do you understand that any factory 600cc sportbike is going to be in the high 10s right out of the box? That's with someone who's not a complete reject in the saddle. Any gearing, performance or suspension modifications will greatly improve even that. I have a GSX-R 750 that's pretty modded and it's really not even a challenge with most cars that are on the street. I don't street race anymore but there are some pretty fast cars that I've been able to beat with that bike. Honestly, I'd come up with a different goal. To accomplish this you would hands down have the fastest CB on this site.

600cc are like high 11s bone stock. i have a 07 gsxr 750 modded and mostly carbon fiber but never took it to the track. but everytime i see a 600 at the track there always in the 11s and there ussally not stock

[Smokinspeeds]

I've followed builds on here for years but I don't have as much experience power wise myself yet, but as for suspension I can say you are not likely to find a spring/strut combo that will hold power down too well with those numbers. I just went from tokico blues with tokico springs, which are almost.as stiff as.koni yellows and nuespeed race, to tien ss coilovers, and I went from slipping a bit in first and shifting to second, to no slip at all with 160 hp ish. I'm sure a traction bar will help, but I would suggest function over form type 2 s for the best price to performance.

As for power, you can build f or H and get good.numbers. bisimoto has good parts for anything you could choose, so whatever block you have/can get easiest isnt really going to be that much more or less better after being built and tuned. k series is not likely to be cheap so stay away from that.

Look into 2.6 's build. All motor h22 built with interior at 2500 lbs running mid 12s. You can find a nice medium and with more power and break 11s, breaking into 10s is really going to be a lot harder though.

[deevergote]

If you want to stay as cheap as possible, stick to the F22A. You can make the power you want with a turbo F22A. H22A will just introduce more expense (even if it's just due to the additional head components.)

Are you planning on racing this at the track, or on the street? At the track, you'd probably be fine with a set of Koni Yellow shocks and a decent set of springs (2" drop or so). I've had no stability issues with konis on full stiff in the rear when racing. Then again, I'm running 15s, not 10s... I really think they only way to determine optimal suspension settings would be to get a quality adjustable suspension and tweak it at the track. Start on a softer setting to ensure stability, and keep stiffening it until you begin to notice the car getting squirly. Do it carefully, and be aware of what's going on, and it should be relatively safe.
Additional chassis braces will always help, too. Anything to keep the torque at the wheels, rather than have it transferred elsewhere.


As for torque, apexbender... the turbo will make more torque than a FWD platform can easily put down. No need to go big! Torque is important, but with a FWD car, it becomes a problem when you can't harness it. That's one of the reasons Honda has opted for low-torque, high-RPM performance engines. Of course, Honda doesn't give a damn about drag racing...

[mndude07]

You're going to want higher compression and less rebound in the shocks than a typical autocross or road race setup. Unfortunately, adjustable shocks like the Koni yellow are fixed compression and adjustable rebound. Cheap coilover like function & form adjust the rebound and compression together which is no good either. I suggest Bilstein Shocks and a shock dyno. As far as springs go, you want a higher rear ride frequency than the front.

Removing all compliance from the rest of the suspension and chassis would pay large dividends as well. This means replacing all the bushings with aluminum, delrin, etc. or even sphericals.

A traction bar and roll cage area a must.

Keep in mind the vehicle weight is going to be a large limiting factor. If you have more than one seat in the car you're doing it wrong.

[SOHC-FTW]

You're going to want higher compression and less rebound in the shocks than a typical autocross or road race setup. Unfortunately, adjustable shocks like the Koni yellow are fixed compression and adjustable rebound. Cheap coilover like function & form adjust the rebound and compression together which is no good either. I suggest Bilstein Shocks and a shock dyno. As far as springs go, you want a higher rear ride frequency than the front.

Removing all compliance from the rest of the suspension and chassis would pay large dividends as well. This means replacing all the bushings with aluminum, delrin, etc. or even sphericals.

A traction bar and roll cage area a must.

Keep in mind the vehicle weight is going to be a large limiting factor. If you have more than one seat in the car you're doing it wrong.

Drag racing setup's are different than normal DD & Road/AutoX setup's especially when you are trying to get those ETs down. Which i hinted at above abit, good info!

[BurtonRiderT6]

600cc are like high 11s bone stock. i have a 07 gsxr 750 modded and mostly carbon fiber but never took it to the track. but everytime i see a 600 at the track there always in the 11s and there ussally not stock

You are wrong and must be watching idiots on a bike. Each class of motorcycle speaking inline 4s (600, 750, 1000) are all seperated by about 1/2 a second (per class) in the quarter mile. The difference in power for these bikes is seen at higher speeds with the roll-ons and such.

Proof for bikes: http://www.sportrider.com/performanc...rs/yamaha.html

REXLOAD: You will never have a FWD STREET (no slicks) car that can beat a motorcycle in the quarter mile. I'm speaking of the GSXR-600s, R6s, CBR600RRs, ZX-6Rs, and above. You can never get enough power to the ground to get you to hang with them in a quarter mile. Now if you are looking for highway roll-ons then you have a good chance hanging with the 600s easy with what you have, except you will need longer gearing because your top speed in the CB7 is what they put down in their quarter mile trap. Whatever you do, good luck.