I'm gonna boost my DD

[Sarthos]

Since my motor went out I'm working on rebuilding it, and I'm planning on boosting it but keeping it a DD. I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on a few things. What I want to do is

Bottom End:
Stock crank
Bisimoto I-Beam rods
Bisimoto Forged Pistons (not sure on comp yet)
Balance shaft delete

Head:
Mild Portwork/3 angle valve job
Bisimoto Pro Valve Springs
Bisimoto Stage 2 NA cam
2 mm oversized intake valves
1 mm oversized exhaust valves

Other
Lightweight Flywheel
PS/AC delete
H23 intake manifold
Chipped ECU
Basic bolt ons

I wasn't sure if anyone might have any opinions on using a stage 2 NA cam on a turbo setup. I think that for a light turbo setup in a daily driver a Naturally aspirated cam might work better, and it would also work better for when I'm off the boost or idling and possibly give better low end. I also know that because it will have a longer overlap I can run a little bit more boost because it won't raise the compression ratio as much as a turbo cam and *should* help prevent detontation as a result.

Also, what kinda piston compression might you suggest? Lower compression will let me run quite a bit more boost, while higher compression is once again going to give better lower end, less turbo lag, etc. like an NA cam. I would sorta like to run lower compression pistons (8.2:1) so I could have a daily driver boost setup, but also be able to change my tune and such and have higher boost for whenever I'd like that. If I were to run 9:1 comp pistons I could still run some decent boost, but I'm not sure how much I could actually run on pump gas. If I did 10.5:1 I could run a turbo but would have to tune with e-85 and I'm not sure how reliable that would be on a daily driver. I'm not entirely sure how high of comp our cars can run on pump gas, I've heard that generally you don't wanna go beyond 12:1 on pump gas, but it's a bit higher for fuel injected, or you can retard your distributor timing to prevent detonation, but I'm still not sure how much you can run even with that on a proper tune.

For the turbo itself I was thinking of running about 5 lbs of boost on a DSM setup or possibly a Garrett T3 with small intake piping and a small intercooler so I won't really deal with turbo lag. Just have enough power to be decently fast for this car.

So anyway, thoughts on using an NA cam, opinions on a comp ratio, a reasonable boost for DD with a good tune, or how far I can go on e-85/pump gas? Thanks!

[quickangel93]

Since my motor went out I'm working on rebuilding it, and I'm planning on boosting it but keeping it a DD. I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice on a few things. What I want to do is

Bottom End:
Stock crank
Bisimoto I-Beam rods
Bisimoto Forged Pistons (not sure on comp yet)
Balance shaft delete

Head:
Mild Portwork/3 angle valve job
Bisimoto Pro Valve Springs
Bisimoto Stage 2 NA cam
2 mm oversized intake valves
1 mm oversized exhaust valves

Other
Lightweight Flywheel
PS/AC delete
H23 intake manifold
Chipped ECU
Basic bolt ons

I wasn't sure if anyone might have any opinions on using a stage 2 NA cam on a turbo setup. I think that for a light turbo setup in a daily driver a Naturally aspirated cam might work better, and it would also work better for when I'm off the boost or idling and possibly give better low end. I also know that because it will have a longer overlap I can run a little bit more boost because it won't raise the compression ratio as much as a turbo cam and *should* help prevent detontation as a result.

Also, what kinda piston compression might you suggest? Lower compression will let me run quite a bit more boost, while higher compression is once again going to give better lower end, less turbo lag, etc. like an NA cam. I would sorta like to run lower compression pistons (8.2:1) so I could have a daily driver boost setup, but also be able to change my tune and such and have higher boost for whenever I'd like that. If I were to run 9:1 comp pistons I could still run some decent boost, but I'm not sure how much I could actually run on pump gas. If I did 10.5:1 I could run a turbo but would have to tune with e-85 and I'm not sure how reliable that would be on a daily driver. I'm not entirely sure how high of comp our cars can run on pump gas, I've heard that generally you don't wanna go beyond 12:1 on pump gas, but it's a bit higher for fuel injected, or you can retard your distributor timing to prevent detonation, but I'm still not sure how much you can run even with that on a proper tune.

For the turbo itself I was thinking of running about 5 lbs of boost on a DSM setup or possibly a Garrett T3 with small intake piping and a small intercooler so I won't really deal with turbo lag. Just have enough power to be decently fast for this car.

So anyway, thoughts on using an NA cam, opinions on a comp ratio, a reasonable boost for DD with a good tune, or how far I can go on e-85/pump gas? Thanks!

then you dont need the bottem end shit. nor have the the head stuff.

a rebuilt head with a bisi stage 2 cam should be all you need. run a 14b at 12 psi or 16g at 9 psi and you should be fine.

as for keeping it a dd. Maintenance it every week. if it needs oil or coolant add it. and dont beat on it all the time. the more you beat on it the more it will be in your garage for repairs

[Sarthos]

I have the motor taken completely apart, I plan on replacing the pistons and rods and such because I don't particularly trust reinstalling 200,000 mile parts as long as the motor's already apart. I also don't know what brands are trustworthy for OE replacement, there's the actual OEM parts which are more expensive than their forged counterparts, there's random stuff on ebay which I don't wanna trust, or there's "Sealed Power" replacements at auto parts stores which I also don't know if I should trust. I just figure if I'm replacing it all anyway, the better parts aren't too much more expensive over stock replacements, and should give the motor the ability to add onto later (like if I eventually wanted to do 20 lbs, or if I wanted a weaker street/DD tune, and also a second tune for racing)

As for 12 or 9 PSI, should that be done by using E-85 and retarding the ignition timing, or can that actually be done on pump gas? I have no idea what the final compression ratio will come out to be since the NA cam will make for a lower compression ratio on boost than a turbo cam, but I've seen enough 4 cylinders run massive boost without resorting to race gas that it must be possible somehow. Maybe just a really good tune? Not entirely sure.

[rexload]

I ran around 300hp on a daily driver, bone stock F22 engine except for the cam. drove 100 miles every day for a while... also raced everything (that was worth my time) so I didn't baby the car. Ran the cheapest oil in the car, and a pretty unsafe tune done by me(a bit on the lean side in full boost, although the timing was tuned safely). My exedy clutch took a crap on me but the engine is still fine.

I don't recomed everybody does what I did and treats their engines like that. BUT this just shows that a stock rebuild or just a block that is in good condition can definitely handle 300hp+ if it is tuned correctly and mantained properly.

No matter what you do, you need to tune your timing. That is a part of modifying any engine. Unless you only plan on running 200hp or less, you need a way to tune your timing if you want your engine to be reliable.
Also, with the parts you listed, you should be aiming for at least 500-600 crank hp range or you are just wasting your time and money. It sounds like a stock block from a reputable engine importer is what you need for your goals. That being said, having a built bottom end won't hurt either way. But building the head past a stock rebuild is not that important. It is a Honda... the head flows enough to quadruple the stock power.

[boostedlude3g]

I would spend my money on rods, pistons and engine management. As for the head work its not needed. I had a 3 angle valve job on mine and that was all the head work I did.

[Sarthos]

The bottom end being built would only cost me a few hundred extra as long as i'm in there, and I just think it'd be hilarious if I could basically just flip a switch, change my tuning, and be able to keep up with cars people put far more money in that are NA.

But for the head, you'd recommend just doing the stock sized valves and no portwork? I'd kinda like the stainless valves because I know they're not gonna burn as easily as stock valves, and I know that if you run a little lean while in boost you can lose stock valves pretty quickly. For the ports I was just gonna have what I think they call a port cleanup/portmatch. But you'd stay away from the valves and any major portwork? I know the head flows really well stock, I just figured a bit better wouldn't hurt.

I'm gonna run the cam and valves, seeing as I already have them

As for adjusting the timing, do you mean the cam timing, the ignition timing or both?

[boostedlude3g]

generally its ignition timing. If you already have all the stuff for the head you might as well proceed. I dont know what your power numbers are but my goal was 300whp and for that I didnt need all the head work. Anything you do to the motor to help it breath better will make it more efficiant obviously. I am at 11-11.5 afr at WOT depending on the air temp.

[Sarthos]

Yah, my idea is that if you're gonna do something do it right. If I wanna push 200 whp I should build a motor that can handle 300 whp so I don't have to fix broken stuff on it every year. My goal is at least 200-250 daily, 350+ on a separate tune that's not for DD. I do everything like a clutch, get more than you need or you're gonna be mad when you break something.

I messed up on my last post though, I have the cam and valve springs, not the actual valves. I won't run the valves if they're not necessary, but if they would add some reliability or would add to power at low boost, or if they'd be helpful on a 350 horse tune I would probably spend the money. I know bronze valve guides and titanium retainers are unnecessary, so I won't waste the money on those.

When you were going for 300 whp, were you just running a turbo on a stock block, or just upgraded rods and pistons? and what kinda fuel? Judging from the fact you say 11-11.5 AFR, it must not have been E-85, I think you need closer to 8:1 on that stuff. I just assumed you'd suffer some detonation if you put that much boost on the block, unless adjusting the ignition timing can do more than I previously thought to save the block. As for tuning your timing, I do have a chipped ECU, is that tunable enough or do I need to adjust the distributor timing manually, or both, or would I need to get something like a programmable MSD ignition?

[Sarthos]

Well I'm about to have this thing reassembled and run it N/A for a while. I'm doing the Bisi Rods and ceramic coated pistons, with 9:1 compression so I assume that I will no longer have the problem with the weak ringlands that you can get with the stock pistons, I'm kinda curious as to what kinda power I can run daily and reliably.

I would assume that I would really want to have an EGT probe to be safe, as well as a realtime emulator so I can make changes instantly if necessary, might need to pick a tuning program other than Crome, but I'm not sure if 300 is gonna be safe for a daily driving tune on 93 octane? Or should I keep it closer to 200 daily? I suppose I'm not gonna burn up valves or anything with the turbo heat, but I should probably get colder plugs and a good ignition timing tune I think. I'll go with an OEM head gasket, but I'm not sure what kinda rod/main bearings to use. OEM or ACL or something else? I was told the Bisi rods are made for OEM bearings.

[dbsharp]

you want to spend how much money to make 250 hp? You need to reevaluate your goals/ budget.

[tm123]

good luck......

[deevergote]

You can make more power than you'd ever need on a daily driver with a stock head. Don't waste your money on headwork. Yes, it can result in more power... but once you reach the 300whp mark (which has been done on a stock block, even) you're reaching the point of drivability issues, reliability issues, and serious inefficiency.

As for the N/A cam... BAD idea. N/A cams rely on overlap to ensure efficielt cylinder filling. Turbo cams have little overlap, to ensure you keep the charge in the cylinder. If you use an N/A cam with a turbo setup, you will be blowing your fresh air/fuel charge right out the exhaust valves.


Why do people always thing a wild N/A cam will be good with a turbo setup? I have to explain this at least once a month... And I've never even built a turbo engine! Read. Research. Understand EVERY part, and why it does what it does... or you're going to be wasting a shitload of money.

[tm123]

the truth has been spoken lol
turbo + DD don't mix well from what ive seen

[deevergote]

It can work... as long as the owner knows what they're dealing with, and can identify problems before they become complete disasters. However, that requires an intimate knowledge of the entire system... which most people do not have. People are too quick to make plans without researching. You MUST learn what you're doing before diving into a turbo project if you don't want it to blow up. Most people on here can't afford trial and error turbo learning.

[Sarthos]

I know the difference between turbo and NA cam is that an NA cam flows better while the turbo cam trades the engine's own flow for maximizing pressure under boost. I was also told that the turbo cam makes you dependent on the turbo for power and therefore you can lose a lot of power idling or cruising because the turbo isn't pushing enough air to compensate for what you're losing from the turbo cam. So I figured an NA cam would be a trade off of more low end/off boost power for less top end power, sorta like when choosing high or low comp pistons.