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**whitejdmcb7** · 08-26-2009, 12:54 AM

that is awesome i think a sticky should be in order

**owequitit** · 08-26-2009, 01:33 AM

1) For the extra $50 or so, I would rather have the compression, because it is easier to make power and tune away boost lag.

2) If you have to mill the head to get the compression ratio back up, you have offset any "savings" you may have had.

3) I agree with the longest possible rod, but I think the word the OP was looking for was rod ratio. You would think if he could figure all this out, he could use the correct terminology.

All in all, it is probably just a front end savings that results in an equal or bigger back end cost.

**d112crzy** · 08-26-2009, 01:44 AM

Originally posted by owequitit View Post

1) For the extra $50 or so, I would rather have the compression, because it is easier to make power and tune away boost lag.

2) If you have to mill the head to get the compression ratio back up, you have offset any "savings" you may have had.

3) I agree with the longest possible rod, but I think the word the OP was looking for was rod ratio. You would think if he could figure all this out, he could use the correct terminology.

All in all, it is probably just a front end savings that results in an equal or bigger back end cost.

If you say so. 1 point in compression doesn't yield all that much power. Yes, you WILL make more power on a higher compression motor than a lower compression motor on the same pressure, everything else being equal. But with compression comes higher levels of detonation. Detonation cannot be avoided, only controlled. It's MUCH easier to control detonation with a lower compression. Detonation kills motors. I don't like detonation. FYI, Bisi's pistons offer an 8.2:1 compression ratio.

Boost lag? If you're building a motor, boost lag is the last of most peoples concern. You'll either have a turbo that will redline high, in which case lag is a good thing as it will give traction control. Or you'll go with a small turbo, with no lag and will end up with small to medium power, with pretty much no traction.
If lag is that much of an issue, learn to brake boost.
Also, lag will be basically non existent in a motor that is set up properly. I've built D16's with 7.5:1 compression that ran turbos comparable to an SC61. Most hit at least 10psi by 4k.

You should be resurfacing the head to begin with. Most shops charge by the hour, so milling should cost a few bucks more than they would on a normal resurface.

Terminology? Fuck that shit.

**owequitit** · 08-26-2009, 02:11 AM

Originally posted by d112crzy View Post

If you say so. 1 point in compression doesn't yield all that much power. Yes, you WILL make more power on a higher compression motor than a lower compression motor on the same pressure, everything else being equal. But with compression comes higher levels of detonation. Detonation cannot be avoided, only controlled. It's MUCH easier to control detonation with a lower compression. Detonation kills motors. I don't like detonation. FYI, Bisi's pistons offer an 8.2:1 compression ratio.

Wow. Thanks for TRYING to talk to me like I am stupid. Nice try, but better luck next time.

Boosted OEM applications with adequate protection are running higher CR's which ultimately leads to better thermal efficiency and thus power.

Of course, there is always a balancing point, but a good engineer or builder would want as much compression as they could safely get on the fuel to be used. Just like an NA setup, which is actually fundamentally the same concept, only at fewer atmospheres of pressure.

Boost lag? If you're building a motor, boost lag is the last of most peoples concern. You'll either have a turbo that will redline high, in which case lag is a good thing as it will give traction control. Or you'll go with a small turbo, with no lag and will end up with small to medium power, with pretty much no traction.
If lag is that much of an issue, learn to brake boost.
Also, lag will be basically non existent in a motor that is set up properly. I've built D16's with 7.5:1 compression that ran turbos comparable to an SC61. Most hit at least 10psi by 4k.

Ceteris Peribus, a higher CR will have better response than a lower CR.

You should be resurfacing the head to begin with. Most shops charge by the hour, so milling should cost a few bucks more than they would on a normal resurface.

The head only needs resurfaced if it doesn't measure within spec. Some may elect to resurface anyway, but if I had a choice between resurfacing a head that didn't need it and saving a few bucks on an ad-hoc piston solution, I would save the money on the head. I mean really, you are talking $50-100 on a several thousand dollar build.

What kind of machine work is needed on the pistons to get the wrist pin to work?

What are the upper limits of these pistons?

How does the skirt design compare to the aftermarkets?

What are the friction characteristics?

Terminology? Fuck that shit.

Terminology is one of the many things that seperates the men from the boys. If you want to be taken seriously as an engine builder, by the people who ARE serious engine builders, then you will need to be able to speak the language. People who generally don't know better often dismiss the language as "unnecessary," much as you just did, but what they fail to understand about the jargon (typically because they are too inexperienced to have realized this, regardless what they SAY), is that it exists so that people can speak to each other on the same page, with the same level of understanding and communication, without making the process any more cumbersome than it needs to be. Not to mention, a term like "rod ratio" is very simple, very fundamental, and very basic. If you can't understand and use that term, how are you going to get a grasp on the much more esoteric stuff that REALLY seperates the men from the boys?

**d112crzy** · 08-26-2009, 02:27 AM

Perhaps it matters to engineers working at manufacturing plants, but from all the people I've dealt with in this part of the industry, they could care less. Some of those people are some of the best head porters and engine builders in the game, as well some of the best tuners.
If I can get my point across with other words, what's the difference? I don't care for impressing people. I understand all the terms properly. I chose not to use them. I live in the real world, not in a world where everyone talks like they're super geniuses and have to be fake to each other as to not hurt someones feelings. I'm sure it's different in your world.
Have you ever stood in a crowd of engine builders or tuners and talked with them? They don't use correct terminology A LOT of the time, as do I.

I agree with you on the head resurface. I hardly ever resurface my heads unless necessary. I only listed it as an option. I wouldn't do it as there is no need to raise compression.

And I'll go back and edit my post. I should have posted that I was talking about a forged piston as well(even though the title states that). Wiseco makes them. Considering stock evo8 pistons can take upwards of 400whp daily, it would be safe to assume these could handle more. All forged pistons come with a floating wrist pin. There's no machining needed. They will slap in just like any other forged piston would. Plus, they have mean ass ringlands.

Boost OEM applications also have low VE, something a fresh build shouldn't be like. They need the higher compression to be responsive, or else they would have to make the rest of the engine breathe better.

Higher cr leads to higher power, with less room for error when it comes to detonation. No doubt about that. For reliability and for safer, higher power low cr is the way to go. Better response can be had by having the proper intake and exhaust setup.

And I'm glad you flatter yourself thinking I was trying to talk to you in any sort of way. I was simply explaining something you don't seem to understand.

**owequitit** · 08-26-2009, 02:58 AM

Originally posted by d112crzy View Post

Perhaps it matters to engineers working at manufacturing plants, but from all the people I've dealt with in this part of the industry, they could care less. Some of those people are some of the best head porters and engine builders in the game, as well some of the best tuners.
If I can get my point across with other words, what's the difference? I don't care for impressing people. I understand all the terms properly. I chose not to use them. I live in the real world, not in a world where everyone talks like they're super geniuses and have to be fake to each other as to not hurt someones feelings. I'm sure it's different in your world.
Have you ever stood in a crowd of engine builders or tuners and talked with them? They don't use correct terminology A LOT of the time, as do I.

That would be in the world of professionals...something you seem to aspire to join.

And what "industry" are you talking about? The industry of poor Honda tuners that thinks they can build a $50 dollar shitbox that will make 900HP and last for 5 million miles? The "industry" that passes off cheaper parts as equal, even though they now know they don't last as long? The industry of early 20 somethings that thinks they know everything, so they routinely attempt to discount those they are envious of?

I don't use correct terminology a lot of the time, however, I know the time and the place, and I have the ability.

I also live in the real world, and outnumber you by quite a few years and quite a few qualifications, which is why I say those words have a purpose. You are making excuses for your laziness.

And son, I have talked to and hung out with engine builders that were building engines before your daddy was a sperm in your grand daddy's nutsack. Don't assume that because you have a little fan club of followers that you have touched more iron than anybody else, and don't make the mistake of assuming that you are the only one that associates with gearheads, builders and enthusiasts.

I agree with you on the head resurface. I hardly ever resurface my heads unless necessary. I only listed it as an option. I wouldn't do it as there is no need to raise compression.

Good, then you would also agree that if you end up milling the head to bring the CR up, then you basically just wasted more than the $50-100 you saved by cheaping out on pistons...

And I'll go back and edit my post. I should have posted that I was talking about a forged piston as well(even though the title states that). Wiseco makes them. Considering stock evo8 pistons can take upwards of 400whp daily, it would be safe to assume these could handle more. All forged pistons come with a floating wrist pin. There's no machining needed. They will slap in just like any other forged piston would. Plus, they have mean ass ringlands.

So every forged piston ever made uses the exact same size wrist pin?

Boost OEM applications also have low VE, something a fresh build shouldn't be like. They need the higher compression to be responsive, or else they would have to make the rest of the engine breathe better.

Higher cr leads to higher power, with less room for error when it comes to detonation. No doubt about that. For reliability and for safer, higher power low cr is the way to go. Better response can be had by having the proper intake and exhaust setup.

But see, that is where you are thinking like a garage builder. OEM engines don't have nearly the poor VE they used to, although to some extent yes, they tend to be somewhat restricted from the factory. However, if I am building a fresh build, one would assume that I would optimize things like intake and exhaust while I am in there, and thus I have already leveraged that improvement, in which case the CR is merely an added benefit.

Also, you are going around in circles with your tuning statments again. I already understand that. But if someone can get a stock F22C with ~11:1 compression to swallow 10PSI of boost on 91 octane, surely someone could do it, or something similar with other engines. Or you can compromise CR for additional boost, but at some point, you SHOULD be maximizing all variables, and not just slapping pistons in a block because they are $50 cheaper.

You can scream and piss and moan all you want. I have seen TONS of Honda builds where the guy building and tuning it just thought his balls were the biggest in town, and in most cases, those builds were not only not that impressive, but weren't that fast. They THOUGHT they knew all there was to know, and that is usually the first sign they didn't know anything, because any builder worth a shit KNOWS they have a lot to learn. Honda-tech is full of these little assholes. Unfortunately, I live in state #2 for tuned Hondas (next to California) and frankly, 9 out of 10 "builds" I have come across do a whole lot of talking and not a whole lot of walking. Yet, according to every "tuner" behind those engines, all they do is build and study engines and performance etc. I have seen very few fast built Hondas unless they were spending a ton of money and relying on tons of boost. I have seen even fewer fast built Hondas that were on some ridiculously cheap budget.

You like to come across as though you are the only one who has ever tried to make a car faster, turned a wrench, read a book or worked on cars. That is far from the truth. You also consistently try to do it by cutting others achievements down, when you in fact have nothing substantial to prove you can do it better. So not only are you just blowing hot air, you are doing it the manner of a dick. As such, you expect to have the favor returned.

And I'm glad you flatter yourself thinking I was trying to talk to you in any sort of way. I was simply explaining something you don't seem to understand.

I understand perfectly. I don't agree. There IS a difference.

**d112crzy** · 08-26-2009, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by owequitit View Post

That would be in the world of professionals...something you seem to aspire to join.

Actually, I don't want to "join" this "world of professionals" you speak of. I don't want to get rich, I don't want to make a huge business. I want to build and tune engines all my life and make some money along the way. Don't assume what I want to do.

Originally posted by owequitit View Post

And what "industry" are you talking about? The industry of poor Honda tuners that thinks they can build a $50 dollar shitbox that will make 900HP and last for 5 million miles? The "industry" that passes off cheaper parts as equal, even though they now know they don't last as long? The industry of early 20 somethings that thinks they know everything, so they routinely attempt to discount those they are envious of?

I don't use correct terminology a lot of the time, however, I know the time and the place, and I have the ability.

I also live in the real world, and outnumber you by quite a few years and quite a few qualifications, which is why I say those words have a purpose. You are making excuses for your laziness.

And son, I have talked to and hung out with engine builders that were building engines before your daddy was a sperm in your grand daddy's nutsack. Don't assume that because you have a little fan club of followers that you have touched more iron than anybody else, and don't make the mistake of assuming that you are the only one that associates with gearheads, builders and enthusiasts.

I don't talk to any poor Honda tuners. I have spoken with the late Earl Laskey, and his son. I've spoken with Brad at RLZ as well. I've spoken with Tony Palo as well. This isn't just on the internet, but over the phone. I've spoken with Chris Harris numerous times and text him quite often. None of those guys care to use the proper jargon all the time.

At the end of the day, the terminology you use doesn't make you any smarter. It just makes it sound like you are. I don't care about "sounding" smarter, as I don't care what people think.

Originally posted by owequitit View Post

Good, then you would also agree that if you end up milling the head to bring the CR up, then you basically just wasted more than the $50-100 you saved by cheaping out on pistons...

Yup. But again, this is one of those things that should be planned on doing anyways, especially if you're getting the head rebuilt(which SHOULD be done).

Originally posted by owequitit View Post

So every forged piston ever made uses the exact same size wrist pin?

Touche. I should have explained that as well. The answer is no, but the pin sizes are the same on these pistons as Hondas floating pins.

Originally posted by owequitit View Post

But see, that is where you are thinking like a garage builder. OEM engines don't have nearly the poor VE they used to, although to some extent yes, they tend to be somewhat restricted from the factory. However, if I am building a fresh build, one would assume that I would optimize things like intake and exhaust while I am in there, and thus I have already leveraged that improvement, in which case the CR is merely an added benefit.

Also, you are going around in circles with your tuning statments again. I already understand that. But if someone can get a stock F22C with ~11:1 compression to swallow 10PSI of boost on 91 octane, surely someone could do it, or something similar with other engines. Or you can compromise CR for additional boost, but at some point, you SHOULD be maximizing all variables, and not just slapping pistons in a block because they are $50 cheaper.

I'm not going in circles. I'm agreeing that higher cr yields better power at the same pressure. I'm also telling you that it's better to have a lower cr due to reliability. But I guess I should also specify I'm thinking of big numbers, over 400whp. For anything under that, 9:1 vs 8:1 won't matter much, tuning wise or reliability wise.

But I guess most people on here don't ever break 400whp so it doesn't matter and they could use the compression since most peoples builds aren't all that extreme.

Originally posted by owequitit View Post

You like to come across as though you are the only one who has ever tried to make a car faster, turned a wrench, read a book or worked on cars. That is far from the truth. You also consistently try to do it by cutting others achievements down, when you in fact have nothing substantial to prove you can do it better. So not only are you just blowing hot air, you are doing it the manner of a dick. As such, you expect to have the favor returned.

And as you can tell, I'm far from a favorite around here. I don't have a fan club, nor want one. I don't disqualify peoples achievements, I question them. Is that so wrong?

Let's stay on topic, Scotty. Enough about my and my lack of proper terminology. This thread is about a different piston choice.

If not for the money, then do it for the better r/s. There, you happy I used the correct terminology?

**rexload** · 08-26-2009, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by d112crzy View Post

F22 rods- $350+
F22 pistons- $450+

Who makes F22 forged pistons for $450?

**HondaFan81** · 08-26-2009, 12:09 PM

More important than meeting bore diameter, piston material, wrist pin diameter and all other fitment requirements...

Were valve relief angles, quench area, etc considered?

Making things fit is the easy part. The real engineering is behind how well these parts work as a system and is often not considered in these hybrid builds. That is why I stick with simplicity and getting parts engineered for the purpose. Logic says if you go with hybrid parts, you really should understand all that is involved to make the best decision. I agree that some parts are not as complex, but pistons play a key role.

Bisimoto F22ax piston kits (CR 8.2, 10.5 or 12:1) $459 (includes pistons, rings, wrist pins & locks)

Bisimoto F22ax connecting rods $339

NOTE: I would bet that if enough people took interest in quality engineered parts for the application, that these prices would drop even more. It is market driven, that is what hurts the F22ax and why the EVO was considered. I can't tell you how many EVOs and STIs I've seen a performance shops or on the road, all too common.

**d112crzy** · 08-26-2009, 12:10 PM

I think bisi's are the closest at around $460+ shipping. Last time I looked at some arias pistons, they were a tad more with the ring set.

These pistons have been found for around $400 shipped. A 1 minute searched found the cheapest set for $429+shipping
http://www.extremepsi.com/store/cust...0VIII%20&%20IX

**d112crzy** · 08-26-2009, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by HondaFan81 View Post

More important than meeting bore diameter, piston material, wrist pin diameter and all other fitment requirements...

Were valve relief angles, quench area, etc considered?

Making things fit is the easy part. The real engineering is behind how well these parts work as a system and is often not considered in these hybrid builds. That is why I stick with simplicity and getting parts engineered for the purpose. Logic says if you go with hybrid parts, you really should understand all that is involved to make the best decision. I agree that some parts are not as complex, but pistons play a key role.

Bisimoto F22ax piston kits (CR 8.2, 10.5 or 12:1) $459 (includes pistons, rings, wrist pins & locks)

Bisimoto F22ax connecting rods $339

NOTE: I would bet that if enough people took interest in quality engineered parts for the application, that these prices would drop even more. It is market driven, that is what hurts the F22ax and why the EVO was considered. I can't tell you how many EVOs and STIs I've seen a performance shops or on the road, all too common.

The pistons are IN the hole, there's practically no need for valve reliefs(the stock pistons have SUPER SMALL reliefs, and these are bigger).

Quench isn't as much as a concern with FI as it is with NA. But it's a dished piston, the most important part of quench will be done by the head.

2 people have used this combo so far, and only 1 has actually ran it.

piston material doesn't matter, as you'll have the block bored to the piston manufacturers specs to achieve proper clearances.

And how long will it take for Bisi to drop prices? Not many people do forged builds as it is, and more than likely, this new piston/rod combo is going to catch on quickly since it's posted on H-T. It would take YEARS before Bisi decides to drop the price even $50. Or it'll take a group buy of 50 members. Neither will happen.

**owequitit** · 08-26-2009, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by d112crzy View Post

Actually, I don't want to "join" this "world of professionals" you speak of. I don't want to get rich, I don't want to make a huge business. I want to build and tune engines all my life and make some money along the way. Don't assume what I want to do.

Hate to break it to you Jose. Perhaps a dictionary lesson is in order here. Look up the word "professional." It is defined simply as someone who gets paid for thier work. You + work + money(even if it isn't a lot) = professional. One thing MOST successful professionals quickly learn is to extend a certain amount of courtesy towards other "professionals." Something that you have a problem with doing. So far, you have been lucky that they have not elected to question YOUR abilities, because frankly, there is a good chance you would not come out on top in such a discussion.

At the end of the day, the terminology you use doesn't make you any smarter. It just makes it sound like you are. I don't care about "sounding" smarter, as I don't care what people think.

Total lack of professional understanding on your part. It's OK. You are 22 have never really been in the professional world (as verified by your behavior), and as such, I would not expect you to understand what I am saying.

And as you can tell, I'm far from a favorite around here. I don't have a fan club, nor want one. I don't disqualify peoples achievements, I question them. Is that so wrong?

You don't question them. You attempt to thump your chest and belittle them at any and every opportunity you have.

Making a statement like "those aren't that impressive" or "I could do almost that good for a fraction of the price" or "I doubt they can do that." Is not questioning. It is being an indignant little kid. Questioning would be more along the lines of "why are the numbers what they are?" No matter what some of these people do, you approach it from a condescending, belittling point of view, and frankly, it is bad for the community.

Some of the people that you are constantly "questioning" are trying to do the same thing you are doing. They are trying to further the community by offering goods and services, while making a little bit of money along the way. And yet, at every chance you get, you find some derogatory way to jump on their case, because according to you, you are just questioning.f

One of the things that Honda "tuners" from your generation neglect to consider is that some of the people you like to perpetually attack, didn't have a Honda-Tech that they could log onto and allow them to get information on how to build a powerful H22. They had to figure it out. The current generation of "tuners" seems to forget that someone had to develop those blueprints, and they didn't have the luxury of piggybacking off of other people's work. You do.

I was around when this shit exploded. In fact, I was doing my first mods on my Accord while you were barely growing little curly hairs on your nuts. At that point in time, it wasn't even widely known that an H22 would in fact go into a CB7 with a minimum of fuss, and yet, Scott Byars, while maybe not the first to do it, was certainly in the earliest group. At that point in time, about the time Bisi was making headway, nobody in their right mind would have EVER guessed than an F22 would be making just under 500HP NA. If you could even get a Honda to 200WHP at that time, you were really something. Then, many of the people took what they knew, and it eventually trickled down to people like you, who log onto Honda-Tech, read some threads, and build an engine with less power, and then you talk down to them.

I have news for you Jose. I am not real impressed with the output of your H22 considering the amount of work you put into it, and the fact that you punched it out an extra .1 liter. I think just a good set of bolt-ons would almost be able to match it in pure HP, for a fraction of the work. But I never said that, because I respect what you do, and I know you are just getting started. I also respect that what you have learned, you have learned the right way, but actually being engaged, and not expecting someone to spoon feed you the data.

I also don't like that you buy knockoff shit and then turn around and complain about the cost of the real stuff. Because you see, if the "real thing" didn't exist, then there would be nothing for all the little asshats on Honda-Tech to knock off and sell for a fraction of the price. You know, like that shiny header you purchased? Had John Grudinski not spent the hours and hours of R&D on that original, you would be forced to use a DC Sports with a 2" collector that is an even worse value for the dollar than the Hytech unit. You never stop to consider the fact that the knockoffs are cheap because the builder only has to copy and not innovate did you? That is how I know you have never had to innovate, because if you had, you would understand what it is like to do all the work, and them some other dude gets over half the sales. Which leads right back to the original problem of the cost on the good part going up because fewer people are buying it, because many people behave just like you. Hopefully, for your sake, you won't pioneer anything, only to have it ripped off by someone else who is going to charge 1/4 the price. Once all the orginals are gone, because the company said "fuck it, it isn't worth it." Then what? Where do you go for gas flow technology then? Or do you just continue to settle for the same cookie cutter knock offs, because that is all that is available?

Would you like it if I start following you around in YOUR achievement threads and start raising a bunch of stink about how unimpressive I think your numbers are, and about how your methods aren't that scientific and you provide no substantiation for most of your reasoning? One thing you will probably learn quickly, and one reason you SHOULD be more apt to extend some professional courtesy, is because you will probably find that getting to 250WHP is going to be a lot harder than getting to 200. You will probably find that getting to 300WHP is going to be harder still, yet you discount, or in your mind, "question" these achievements as though you do it twice a day, every day. Yeah, they spent a lot of money to get there, but you know what? They had to figure it out from scratch. I would be willing to bet that either one of them could recreate a similarly powerful engine for much smaller cost now that they have it figured out. They are also probably more adaptable and capable because not only can they tell you what works, they can tell you exactly WHY it works, and to what degree it will work. I am guessing you can't do that with any given mod on an H22 or an F22.

Do you think if people constantly saw me berating your builds, that they might be less inclined to want to have you tune something, or give you money? Would that hurt YOUR goal of becoming professional? It certainly wouldn't help, would it?

Let's stay on topic, Scotty. Enough about my and my lack of proper terminology. This thread is about a different piston choice.

Do you mean "on topic" like when other people are trying to carry on a legitmate thread and you see the need to go in with your bullshit? Would that be the kind of on topic you are referring to? If you have a problem, there are legitmate and mature ways to deal with it, and then there is the way you do. I am using YOUR way, because that seems to get through to you a little better. This is YOUR very own logic being used against you, so before you call me an ass, blame for something or generally say something stupid, look in the mirror and consider the fact that you are talking to yourself, not me.

In case I am not being clear, let me paraphrase. If you want to legitmately question, and discuss fine. If you want to accuse, berate, flame, insight bullshit or generally harm the well being of this community, then I will make it a point to do whatever research I need to, and learn whatever I need to in order to make sure you experience the very same thing in any thread you create.

There is a life lesson that everyone should follow more closely, myself included:

"Treat others the way you want to be treated."

I am sure your mother probably reminds you of this from time to time. Your mouth frequently outpaces your abilities, and it will get you into trouble one day. Now, feel free to resume the topic.

**owequitit** · 08-26-2009, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by d112crzy View Post

And how long will it take for Bisi to drop prices? Not many people do forged builds as it is, and more than likely, this new piston/rod combo is going to catch on quickly since it's posted on H-T. It would take YEARS before Bisi decides to drop the price even $50. Or it'll take a group buy of 50 members. Neither will happen.

Well, since it is all predicated on volume, one would assume that he would drop the price as he sells more. Plus, you are seriously complaining about the price, when a custom made F22 piston set costs only $50 more than this hackjob, half-assed solution you are trying to sell, I think the better question would be, why are the EVO pistons still so expensive? I would assume their are more EVO's running around modded than F22's, so one would assume that for the volume of those that must have sold, the price should be more than $50 lower, right? I mean afterall, if Bisi's prices are to high, then so are the prices on this set of pistons, especially considering how much less than ideal it is for the application.

**d112crzy** · 08-26-2009, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by owequitit View Post

Well, since it is all predicated on volume, one would assume that he would drop the price as he sells more. Plus, you are seriously complaining about the price, when a custom made F22 piston set costs only $50 more than this hackjob, half-assed solution you are trying to sell, I think the better question would be, why are the EVO pistons still so expensive? I would assume their are more EVO's running around modded than F22's, so one would assume that for the volume of those that must have sold, the price should be more than $50 lower, right? I mean afterall, if Bisi's prices are to high, then so are the prices on this set of pistons, especially considering how much less than ideal it is for the application.

The only price I've ever complained about was his header and IM gasket. Nothing else. I think his piston design and price are pretty damn good. This is just a slightly cheaper alternative.

In no way is it a hack job either. There is no "hacking" of any sort, nor is it half assed considering it would probably give better reliability and long term power due to the better r/s ratio. How is it less than ideal?

As for your other post, tou-motherfucking-che. I know I come off as an asshole 99% of the time. But my true intentions are not to berate, belittle or discredit the big guys(see Bisi and Scott). Perhaps I should word myself better.

Or perhaps I shouldn't and keep doing what I do because I don't care. Only time will tell what happens.

Now, as most other threads, this would be the point in where a mod would come and edit all the bs out. I'm asking you, or any other mod to please do so. This is an informative thread and not about the way I am or my lack professionalism. If you wish to further discuss it, then PM me as you would often tell others.

Oh, and I hardly put any work or money into my build. It cost less than a JDM long block from an importer. And I KNOW it's not impressive as even I'm not happy or impressed with it. Can't complain for the amount of "work" I put into it, or didn't.

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A forged piston alternative

A forged piston alternative

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