whos running a DSM set up?

[rexload]

For ~250whp+ most will suggest a bigger turbo, especially on a stock block
But from what I have seen 180-250whp is easily doable with 14B which is a very cheap turbo

Before putting a turbo on, it is a good idea to at least make sure it has good compression, do the timing belt/oil seals maintenance, and replace the clutch with a stronger aftermarket unit.

The best thing to do would be to pull the engine, rebuild the block and get forged pistons. This would actually cost well under 1K if you can do most of the work yourself.

But a stock block can last too. All you need is a safe timing map from someone who has experience with tuning these engines, and then adjust your fuel to high 11s at WOT. Or you can find a reputable tuner and have it street and dyno tuned.

H22 swap can be done for ~$1000 (with F22 tranny) but it doesn't feel as fast as a turbo. As mentioned above $1000 can definitely get you a turbo setup if you shop around. The H22 is good for reliablity and/or if you are planning on adding some aftermarket parts to it and tuning it. A stock H22 with stock ECU is slow by todays standards.

[keycb7]

What would be best ECU tuning software for beginner, I'm planing on tuning all myself, I know that hondata S300 is over $600 and seams that it's best for beginner as it user friendly, or crome is same but cheaper?

Also what ECU is best P06 or P28.

I've been reading some where that P28 have egr sensor that can be hooked up as boost controler with bar map sensor, I hope this make sense, you know I new to all of this

Thank you guys for all this great info

[rexload]

What would be best ECU tuning software for beginner, I'm planing on tuning all myself, I know that hondata S300 is over $600 and seams that it's best for beginner as it user friendly, or crome is same but cheaper?

Also what ECU is best P06 or P28.

I've been reading some where that P28 have egr sensor that can be hooked up as boost controler with bar map sensor, I hope this make sense, you know I new to all of this

Thank you guys for all this great info

Crome is best for a beginner because it is free. No matter what software you use, it is necessary to do some reading on fuel injection and how the ECU is working with signals from all the critical sensors.

Both P06 and P28 can be used. P28 can control VTEC, the P06 cannot...BUT the P06 can be converted to VTEC.

I am not sure about using egr as boost controller. Hopefully someone with more knowledge can explain it

[chessboxer]

If the egr output is a pwm style output, then it should be the case that one could take over that output, and then reuse it for what they see fit.

If it is not however, then I do not see how it would work. I could tell you about how boost control works with an E8, but thats not the topic at hand here.

I too, would like to know if one of the chipped ecus and programs allows for one to reuse the egr input/output(I do not know how it is controlled) for something else.

[keycb7]

I found that tread that talks about p28, egr that can be used for electronic boost controler, like "chessboxer" said by pwm signal.
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...ight=p28+boost

interesting, that leaves me wondering how many people use it that way. i guess the civic and teg guys are stuck running aftermarket hardware for their boost controller signal...

I guess thats why its harder to find the solenoids by themselves w/o the usual included controlling hardware

What controling hardware is that? boost control solenoid?

[evil_demon_01]

I found that tread that talks about p28, egr that can be used for electronic boost controler, like "chessboxer" said by pwm signal.
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...ight=p28+boost






What controling hardware is that? boost control solenoid?

I'm using the P28 and yes the egr pinout is a pwm signal which I'm using with my MAC valve solenoid.

I meant It was harder to find just a boost control solenoid, rather than a whole system. E.g a greddy electronic boost controller, Which comes with solenoid, controller and wiring. When All I needed was the solenoid.

[gloryaccordy]

I hear the 14B dies out on top really fast

Would a smallish 16G be better even for a moderate amount (~9-10 PSI) of boost? I think a 14B would be to small for an F22B DOHC/H23.

Also what kind of support outside of the turbo related stuff is needed? Obviously a better clutch... but do you need a new radiator? Oil cooler?

And what size exhaust would be good... 3" sounds right.

[oneoffaccord]

you dont need a new radiator or oil cooler if you are running low boost. better clutch would help if u going for high hp

[rvaldez0781]

Sorry to resurrect a 6month old thread... But can the 14b be fitted with an external wastegate. I read of rerouting the internal wastegate, but that even then boost creep/spike may still be a concern. Since I wont be modifying any internals I want to be as safe as possible.


Thanks

[WiKKeDV16]

Buy yourself a o2 housing flange on ebay(flange that bolts up 2 the turbo for the downpipe)

And have the outlet for the internal wastegate. Welded open and/or remove the entire flapper assembly and have it the remaining hole welded shut..now u can use an external wastegate with a 90 degree elbow. Or however u want..

Look up chessboxer's ride..he did this with his evo3 16g

[WilliamW]

Well, I'm sure they make DSM manifolds with external waste gate flanges on it, but what I've found is that most of the DSM manifolds that have the flange for a 38 or bigger waste gate have a T3 flange for a hybrid turbo setup. If a DSM-er upgrades their manifold they usually use a bigger turbo and have the option of internal or external waste gates.

I'm looking for the same thing. My internal waste gate didn't vent enough off and made 12 psi and blew all my ring lands off. So I ported out the housing BIG TIME and I'm also installing a 38mm Turbonetics Delta Mark II waste gate on the manifold. -Extra security.

I've thought about this too, and the one option really wouldn't have worked. Get a turbo manifold for the F / H / whatever engine, and use a T3 to 16G flange adapter. The problem with this is placement in your engine bay. The exhaust dump of the turbo would have to be completely custom, and that's a lot of work. The other option that would work is getting a T3 manifold for a DSM with external waste gate and using that same T3-16G adapter. This would give you pretty good placement but I'm not sure on the fitment of the turbo. With an extra 1/2" in between the turbo's regular placement and the manifold, it may not clear the block.

Just have to do some really detailed planning, and fitment

[WiKKeDV16]

Its funny william..because your idea is so dead on..as to what can be done on a budget to eliminate boost creep(extensive porting and the use of a external gate)..what kills me is that your using a turbonetics deltagate..which is INFAMOUS for boost creep..hell there called deathgates..look what happend to gdoutflip..20psi spike..says the little tell tell laptop with datalogging software..I now have said wastegate and opened it up to insect to see what was the failure..besides the fact that the valve doesn't recess entirely into the chamber (only recessed between 1/4 and 1/2) the spring seal that maintains boost in the chamber(seal that goes around the actual stem of the valve) goes bad on these things...so..my best advice..if you find yourself having to use the deathgate..use a weak spring..(3psi) and work your way up with a boost controller..that way..if it were to ever fail..it should open before too much/if any harm is done

[chessboxer]

A couple of things to note.

1-Carlos is spot on about the turbonetics wg, go with tial, you won't regret it.

2-The dsm stuff is notorious for creeping on their smaller 2.0L motors. When you go to our 2.2L motors, you have even more airflow and an even great tendency to creep. Air follows the path of least resistance, and the route to the wg on a dsm turbo is small,so it often times just doesn't flow enough air out of it for it to be effective.

3-To eliminate this, remove the o2 housing from the turbo and port out the area on the turbo going to the wg. Even after I went external wg via this method, I had to port it out as it was STILL creeping. Boost maybe creeps .5 psi now as well.

4-If boost creeping and spiking really concerns you, look into an ecu with overboost protection. If the engine is tuned for 8 psi, but it sees a 12 psi spike, you can set it so that at X psi, it cuts fuel and ignition timing out, to prevent chaos in your engine from overboosting for whatever reason.

[rvaldez0781]

A couple of things to note.

1-Carlos is spot on about the turbonetics wg, go with tial, you won't regret it.

2-The dsm stuff is notorious for creeping on their smaller 2.0L motors. When you go to our 2.2L motors, you have even more airflow and an even great tendency to creep. Air follows the path of least resistance, and the route to the wg on a dsm turbo is small,so it often times just doesn't flow enough air out of it for it to be effective.

3-To eliminate this, remove the o2 housing from the turbo and port out the area on the turbo going to the wg. Even after I went external wg via this method, I had to port it out as it was STILL creeping. Boost maybe creeps .5 psi now as well.

4-If boost creeping and spiking really concerns you, look into an ecu with overboost protection. If the engine is tuned for 8 psi, but it sees a 12 psi spike, you can set it so that at X psi, it cuts fuel and ignition timing out, to prevent chaos in your engine from overboosting for whatever reason.

Good info guys... but i like option 4, seems easiest. Would any chipped ecu have the powert to cut fuel and ignition... or are we talking about something along the lines of a hondata s300?

[d112crzy]

Or stop using DSM parts and upgrade to a real manifold and a real turbo with a real wastegate. Costs more, but won't blow up your motor Until you up the boost enough anyways