Which PT6 for an F22A1?

[af_1132]

Thanks to this compilation by Tippey764,

http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...CU+compilation

I have a great start on finding a replacement ECU for my 93 LX 5 Speed PT3-L05 (oh, California emissions standards ). Since my project is a drag car project, I am fine with replacing the factory ECU with another that will not pass emissions tests. My plan is to replace the F22A1 intake manifold with an H23A1 plenum and a F22A6 runners. Deev says to go with a PT6 in this case, but which version? I see on the compilation that the non-California 93 EX manuals have a PT6-A12. The spot for the LX just above is blank. Does anyone know if that is also supposed to be PT6-A12, or even just PT6-A__?

Also, I am planning on going with Hondata S300 with this ECU, if that is even possible. I see mostly P28s and P72s with Hondata S300, so I am not sure if it is even compatible with the PT6. I know that CB7 Tuner is the best place to get the right info on this .

Any information on this would be much appreciated. I am relatively new here, but ready to learn and extremely serious about my project. No cutting corners for me!

Thanks again.

[GhostAccord]

If you are looking to go with a Hondata S300 unit you need an OBD1 P06, P28, P30, P72 etc etc. None of the Accord PT3 or PT6 ECUs will work with Hondata.

[af_1132]

Ah, good to know, thank you. Which one of those ECUs would you suggest for the H23A1 plenum and the F22A6 runner combo (my plan is to stay with the F22A block and head)? I am looking for more high end kick, which is why I'm going with the shorter A6 runners.

[drummersteve7]

are you running the IABs?
if Yes - P72
If NO = P28/P06

if you need the ecu, my recommendation is, just go p28.
p28 is already setup for VTEC (which I know you wont be using here)
but in the future you will be set, and not have to change ecus.

here is a small quick rundown of the ecus and what they support,
once you chip them for s300, its all about the calibration file
that is located on the s300 through Hondata SManager.

p06: nonVTEC (potential for IAB and/or VTEC to be added)
p28: VTEC
p72: VTEC and IABs

I run no IABs so the P28 suits me just fine, FYI.

[GhostAccord]

The IAB circuit can also be added to some of the P06 and P28 boards as well. it's not a hard procedure for anyone who has moderate soldering skills. Besides, it's always nice to have a few extra input/outputs on the ECU. You may not have any direct use for VTEC and/or IAB's right away, but those ECU functions can be used to manage other systems as well. i.e. water or meth injection system.

[deevergote]

Dammit... I wanted to contribute to this thread, but the smarter guys got here first Now I'm just watching to see where it goes.

For the moment, keep it simple. Chances are, you'll find a California-emissions PT6 in a junkyard. I honestly wonder what the difference really is.
The F22A6 camshaft will be a good thing to grab while you're there.
Until you do some more modifications, you'll see little benefit from Hondata, or any tunable engine management system. A stock or near stock F22A is a fantastic platform to learn and practice tuning, but you're not going to see many gains.
Personally, I'd go with a free or cheap tuning solution over Hondata. Hondata makes great products, but you're paying more for the name, and for features that the average amateur enthusiast will likely never use. It's not a bad choice, but potentially excessive.

As said, the P72 is the only commonly tuned ECU that has IAB control. You CAN add IAB controls to a P06 or P28, however. Steve said that already... dammit.
The PT3 and PT6 can be tuned, but not with most common software. If you're curious, check out www.pt-tuner.com. (edit: it seems that the site isn't working anymore... I don't know if it's temporarily down, or if it's down for good... but a member here started it, and was making progress in tuning the PT3/6 ECUs)

[GhostAccord]

If you have any soldering skills and equipment or a friend that might be a nice guy. the P06 would be your cheapest bet. Then you can easily add VTEC and IAB's when and if you need them. Real P28 ECUs are getting harder to find, most of the VTEC ECU's for sale are modified P06 ECUs anyway. Why pay someone $100 for a mod that costs $15-30.

Any ECU chipping or modding questions don't hesitate to ask... I've done my fair share of ECU mods over the years.

[af_1132]

Don't worry Deev, you definitely did contribute.

Thank you, Ghost, and thank you all for your help so far. To answer an earlier question, I am going for an IAB deleted setup, since this is a complete drag car project (car will be towed to track, no need to be an idiot on the street giving us a bad name) and I won't be worried about the low end. I am also no longer going to do an H VTEC engine swap, as originally planned. From what I've read, the F-series SHOCs have more potential for both N/A and boosted engines, provided the project build is extensive. I'm also inspired by Bisi's F series Honda Insight build, I digress....

Looks like the P06 is the best bet for when I do the IM upgrade. To practice limited tuning on the PT3 that's in there now, I'm going to have to do some more researching, or hopefully pt-tuner.com will get up and running. For those that have made progress tuning PT3's, any recommendations for those just starting out (a.k.a, me)?

[deevergote]

The potential of the F is a bit overhyped, honestly. Though if it's going to be an all-out drag car, you can probably hit about the same peak numbers with either an F22A or H22A.

I've gotten into the habit of discouraging N/A F22A builds that are intended for the street, however. The low end really does suffer. VTEC makes for a much more useful powerband! Now I'm going way off topic, though...

The creator of PT-tuner has experience with the PT3/6, obviously. There are a few other guys on here that have messed with it as well. Compared to the more advanced systems, though, the PT3/6 ECUs are going to offer very little control. I wouldn't even bother with them if you're looking to do a serious drag setup... unless you'd like to continue the development of the system!

[af_1132]

The potential of the F is a bit overhyped, honestly. Though if it's going to be an all-out drag car, you can probably hit about the same peak numbers with either an F22A or H22A.

True, excellent reasons for me to stay with my F. I know most street applications with the F that have been compiled on here are under 200whp, and that's after quite a bit of work, including ECU tuning. If I were going for a street application, a P72 or P28 setup on an H series with IABs would be heaven, it seems.

I'll look for the pt-tuner on here and hopefully connect with him. Ghost, when I get the P06 and Hondata, I will definitely ask you for help. Thanks for offering. I was thinking of setting up and appointment to take the car to the Bisimoto dyno, but I'm not sure I would learn nearly as much as personally working on it in my garage with someone else's help.

Time to move onto throttle bodies...in the appropriate section, of course.

[cloudasc]

Dammit... I wanted to contribute to this thread, but the smarter guys got here first Now I'm just watching to see where it goes.

For the moment, keep it simple. Chances are, you'll find a California-emissions PT6 in a junkyard. I honestly wonder what the difference really is.
The F22A6 camshaft will be a good thing to grab while you're there.
Until you do some more modifications, you'll see little benefit from Hondata, or any tunable engine management system. A stock or near stock F22A is a fantastic platform to learn and practice tuning, but you're not going to see many gains.
Personally, I'd go with a free or cheap tuning solution over Hondata. Hondata makes great products, but you're paying more for the name, and for features that the average amateur enthusiast will likely never use. It's not a bad choice, but potentially excessive.

As said, the P72 is the only commonly tuned ECU that has IAB control. You CAN add IAB controls to a P06 or P28, however. Steve said that already... dammit.
The PT3 and PT6 can be tuned, but not with most common software. If you're curious, check out www.pt-tuner.com. (edit: it seems that the site isn't working anymore... I don't know if it's temporarily down, or if it's down for good... but a member here started it, and was making progress in tuning the PT3/6 ECUs)

There is very good information in this thread in regards to different ECU's and tuning. In regards to the differences between California Emissions and 49-state emissions, I'm pretty sure the engine/tune is better adjusted to the additive required in the fuel out here, and to comply with emissions standards, though I do not have access to any California roms to compare the differences.

The first letter following the PTx- means (A - 49 states, L - California Emissions, etc)
The first number following the letter signifies whether it is an auto or a manual. Automatics will be numbered 5 or 7. Manuals are either 0 or 1 typically.
The second number following is the revision.
So A PT6-A51 would be a 49 state automatic ecu.

Also in regards to the website pt-tuner.com, long story short, there was some issues with the reseller of the registrar, which is currently being dealt with, and I expect to have the domain back by the end of March. Until then, if you would like to review the information I have compiled about the PT3/PT6 you can visit: http://www.pt-tuner.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page for My Wiki.

The main menu on the website points to the problematic domain, so if you would like to access the different main pages of my site, please try the following links.
Software Page - http://www.pt-tuner.com/Software/
Hardware Page - http://www.pt-tuner.com/Hardware/

EDIT: Temp URL's Removed, and replaced with domain urls.

[af_1132]

Oh man! Thank you, cloudasc, for getting on this thread! It's awesome to know that I can access the information and get to learning. I was worried I wouldn't find you own my own, but I recognize your signature.

PT3 tuning, here I come!

[deevergote]

Awesome. I'm glad to see that the site isn't gone! I saw that your Facebook page has gone a while without an update, and I feared the worst!

[af_1132]

The first letter following the PTx- means (A - 49 states, L - California Emissions, etc)

I meant to ask, have you come across noticeable differences between the L and the A classifications of PT3s? Some of us are wondering how significant the differences really are.

[cloudasc]

I meant to ask, have you come across noticeable differences between the L and the A classifications of PT3s? Some of us are wondering how significant the differences really are.

Unfortunately the only Cali emission ecu I have is a pt6 L50.... That I pulled out of a junkyard in Texas, is currently in my cb7, and I have not tried to pull the eprom on it yet. Now that I'm in Cali, maybe I will go junkyard scavenging for Cali ecu's in the future, but as of right now I honestly cannot comment on true differences between them. The pt6 most likely won't be pulled until my p06 replaces it after my planned build.

In regards to tunability of these ecus the only things I have identified is the ignition advance map and rpm scales. I still have yet to figure out the formula for fuel, which honestly will take someone reading assembly to figure it out.