I wanna talk fuel

[Shag Wagon]

Ok so I was reading an article in Hot Rod magazine about ethanol. They were researching the effects of ethanol in those good old classic V8s and there were some surprising results. I beleive there was a 30 hp difference been 93 and E85. They were also saying something about running more boost with the higher octane E85 fuel. Here is what I want to know. How can I talk my H22a powered CB9 into comsuming E85 safely, effectively, and efficiently. Yes I am very aware that when you run E85, you will need alot of it. Would there have to be changes to the ECU and how much E85 is delivered? Would there need to be a change in the ignition timing? I ask these questions because E85 is $2.40 a gallon over in SC compared to the $2.99 87 octane gasoline and I wanna see what performance I can acheive with the new fuel.

[NAiL05]

1. E85 is equivalent to 105 octane.
2. Make sure your area supplies E85 before trying to convert (I know of some areas that dont have e85 at all and there are only 2 stations in Dallas)
3. MPG is gonna fail
4. Components will wear out but it will take some time.
5. Retune

[d112crzy]

1. E85 is equivalent to 105 octane.
2. Make sure your area supplies E85 before trying to convert (I know of some areas that dont have e85 at all and there are only 2 stations in Dallas)
3. MPG is gonna fail
4. Components will wear out but it will take some time.
5. Retune

Not all e85 is 105 octane. It ranges from 104-115.


For the OP, I can and will guarantee you will see absolutely no gains by just using a higher octane fuel.

All higher octane fuel does is increase your knock limit. When you increase the knock limit, you can add more timing and/or increase the boost. This is what creates the hp gain. Not the fuel alone.

To answer the rest of your questions,

You need to upgrade your injectors to at least double of what you would normally run with normal octane. You'd need to upgrade your fuel pump and you'd need to be professionally tuned.

e85 does cause corrosion, but it takes YEARS and YEARS for that to have any significant effect on your engine components.

Your fuel mileage will decrease by about 30% as well because it takes more fuel(hence double the size of injectors needed) to make the same amount of power you were before.

There are other threads on this forum explaining e85 and whats needed to run it.

search.

[Shag Wagon]

ok I will admit I didnt search.

The reason why I ask is because I wanna be prepared for the future. I do indeed want to keep my CB9 for a long time and I want to be prepared for a big fuel shortage or something crazy like that. I know it probably wont happen but still. I think I would indeed run ethanol in my H22a if I had boost because from what I have read on here is that the H22a cant handle no more than like 8 lbs of boost and ethanol would help. But I would only do it if I wanted to drag race it. Also...Im not trying to be funny but how well will moonshine run in our cars? My friend had a go cart that would run like hell on moonshine...thats why I ask. All I am doing to trying to learn more about alternative fuels and their pros and cons.

[h22sparkle]

ok I will admit I didnt search.

The reason why I ask is because I wanna be prepared for the future. I do indeed want to keep my CB9 for a long time and I want to be prepared for a big fuel shortage or something crazy like that. I know it probably wont happen but still. I think I would indeed run ethanol in my H22a if I had boost because from what I have read on here is that the H22a cant handle no more than like 8 lbs of boost and ethanol would help. But I would only do it if I wanted to drag race it. Also...Im not trying to be funny but how well will moonshine run in our cars? My friend had a go cart that would run like hell on moonshine...thats why I ask. All I am doing to trying to learn more about alternative fuels and their pros and cons.

Well as for the fuel think about the h22 and boost. Honestly i wouldnt bother boosting that motor at all nor the car. The motor will take a big shit on you at the worse possible time trust me. At just 6psi no matter how anal the tune is if the motors gonna go boom its gonna go boom.

As for the ethanol itll help you get slightly more power,less knock but without someone tuning it or you running it all the time that also wont help either itll make it worse. Now think about it when you run ethanol its always good to advance the timing more torque less fuel being burnt all up in the cylinders gradually more efficiently therefore lowering the temps of the cylinders and such.

As far as alternative fuels go to the racetrack or your local speedshop to get the fuel. And as for the c16 racegas careful they contain lead and other additives that may damage the motors o2 sensors and catylic converters and then the motor itself. Octane boosters dont do shit except torco from what im told but they have lead and other additives too to raise the octane which can potentially hurt the motor. I plan to later on down the line get the devils own ethanol kit. Which pretty much helps my car with the racemap i have for the racegas aint life grand

[NAiL05]

Well as for the fuel think about the h22 and boost. Honestly i wouldnt bother boosting that motor at all nor the car. The motor will take a big shit on you at the worse possible time trust me. At just 6psi no matter how anal the tune is if the motors gonna go boom its gonna go boom.

As for the ethanol itll help you get slightly more power,less knock but without someone tuning it or you running it all the time that also wont help either itll make it worse. Now think about it when you run ethanol its always good to advance the timing more torque less fuel being burnt all up in the cylinders gradually more efficiently therefore lowering the temps of the cylinders and such.

As far as alternative fuels go to the racetrack or your local speedshop to get the fuel. And as for the c16 racegas careful they contain lead and other additives that may damage the motors o2 sensors and catylic converters and then the motor itself. Octane boosters dont do shit except torco from what im told but they have lead and other additives too to raise the octane which can potentially hurt the motor. I plan to later on down the line get the devils own ethanol kit. Which pretty much helps my car with the racemap i have for the racegas aint life grand

1. Boosted H22s failing....As I recall yours blew for some reason I dont recall of. But if you want to see a properly done h22 turbo look at Kamaccord and Accord SiR. Kamaccord is still under the knife but Accord SiR is the longest one I have known of with no issues. There are others out there I just cant figure out the name. Boosting an H22 is easy its if you know how to do it. My friend made 279 or so whp on his auto h22a with the rev hard kit.

2. Octane boosters are worthless you might get lulcky if you empty a 10 gallon jug of it in your tank.

3. They have unleaded race gas nowadays.

4. Completely lost at what your trying to explain wiht the tuning part.

5. As for your fuel shortage issue we live in the US comeon...We are eventually gonna find fuel one way or another.

[h22sparkle]

1. Boosted H22s failing....As I recall yours blew for some reason I dont recall of. But if you want to see a properly done h22 turbo look at Kamaccord and Accord SiR. Kamaccord is still under the knife but Accord SiR is the longest one I have known of with no issues. There are others out there I just cant figure out the name. Boosting an H22 is easy its if you know how to do it. My friend made 279 or so whp on his auto h22a with the rev hard kit.

2. Octane boosters are worthless you might get lulcky if you empty a 10 gallon jug of it in your tank.

3. They have unleaded race gas nowadays.

4. Completely lost at what your trying to explain wiht the tuning part.

5. As for your fuel shortage issue we live in the US comeon...We are eventually gonna find fuel one way or another.

nail he never mention building his h22. All and all the motor is better for allmotor unless its built itll be worth its weight in gold if not then nope.

As for the unleaded racegas we all know that well most of us anyways. I know your completely lost on the tuning part as far as srt4's do some more research on it and theyll break it down for you. As far as fuel if someone is willing to pay for it well get it.

[Shag Wagon]

Moonshine?

[js593]

As of yesterday, i heard that Janurary 1st, ALL canadian gas stations must be equiped to provide E85 fuel. If its true that its 105 octane, thats higher then premium. And the cost is going to be higher, with more fuel consumtion. How the fuck can they get away with raising prices AGAIN, after were payins almost 1.10$ /L already... thats ludacris, thats stupid... no thats just plain fucked up. E85 is going to screw all older cars pre 94 (anything without a MAF sensor with be screwed) and leave us in te dust with motors that dont run, and are caked with oil based fuel in the sensors...
Anyone wanna spread some technical facts on this and how its going to directly affect the performance of our cars, cause im debating on going out, buying a turbo, and going premium fuel with higher injectors.... and i'll ass rape the invironment putting it to max fuel output.

[MRX]

Not all e85 is 105 octane. It ranges from 104-115.


For the OP, I can and will guarantee you will see absolutely no gains by just using a higher octane fuel.

All higher octane fuel does is increase your knock limit. When you increase the knock limit, you can add more timing and/or increase the boost. This is what creates the hp gain. Not the fuel alone.

I have to disagree slightly. I agree that simply running higher octane fuel will not yield more power...usually less power actually, but we're also talking about a different type of fuel here. The differences in the chemical properties of the fuel may equate to a stronger more complete combustion resulting in more power.

[h22sparkle]

I have to disagree slightly. I agree that simply running higher octane fuel will not yield more power...usually less power actually, but we're also talking about a different type of fuel here. The differences in the chemical properties of the fuel may equate to a stronger more complete combustion resulting in more power.

r+m/2 100octane unleaded from vpracing is what i recommend
VP Racing Fuels, Inc. is committed to being a good corporate citizen in its worldwide operations, being environmentally responsible, and obeying all applicable laws and regulations. VP encourages our distributors, dealers and customers to also be good citizens and obey applicable laws and regulations in the sale and use of VP products.

All VP fuels are available in 5- (19 liter), 15- (56 liter), 30- (113 liter) and 54-gallon (204 liter) pails and drums except where noted.




Look for these icons under each fuel listed to determine if the fuel is recommended for your particular application:

Oxygenated with ethanol, this CARB-legal fuel is specifically engineered for high-performance street cars including sport compacts, muscle cars, street rods and more. It's environmentally friendly and street legal throughout the U.S. In applications with anything from 4- to 12-cyclinders or engines equipped with a turbocharger, supercharger or nitrous oxide system (NOS), StreetBlaze 100 will generate optimum power and performance. In turbocharged or supercharged applications, it allows an increase in boost without fear of detonation. NOS users can also leverage their higher octane ratings to step up to a more powerful nitrous oxide system. Dyno tests with a turbocharged application proved StreetBlaze100 generates up to 14% more horsepower compared to premium grade 91 octane unleaded gasoline. Designed for use in cast-iron head engines with CRs up to 13:1 and aluminum head engines up to 14:1. Works well on the latest generation of electronically-controlled turbo engines. Contains no metal compounds and won't harm catalytic converters or oxygen sensors.

[d112crzy]

sparkle, you should really start referencing all the info your post, and put it in a quote.

MRX, e85 actually puts out less energy, which is why pretty much double the fuel is required with its use.

If you do nothing but convert to run e85, and tune the FUEL ONLY, you won't see any gains. That is, unless your previous tune was crap to start with.

it's the same thing with water/meth injection. No gains will be had with the injection alone.

You need to increase timing by quite a bit to see any real gains.

When I say real gains, I'm not talking 1-5whp. I'm talking a lot more. Enough to be worth the cost of converting.

If you're doing an e85 conversion for that little hp, then you're nuts.

[h22sparkle]

sparkle, you should really start referencing all the info your post, and put it in a quote.

MRX, e85 actually puts out less energy, which is why pretty much double the fuel is required with its use.

If you do nothing but convert to run e85, and tune the FUEL ONLY, you won't see any gains. That is, unless your previous tune was crap to start with.

it's the same thing with water/meth injection. No gains will be had with the injection alone.

You need to increase timing by quite a bit to see any real gains.

When I say real gains, I'm not talking 1-5whp. I'm talking a lot more. Enough to be worth the cost of converting.

If you're doing an e85 conversion for that little hp, then you're nuts.

I did reference the stuff i posted d112. The racefuel im using is 100octane unleaded from streetblaze and even though the fuel does lower it down some it did raise my power and torque with increased timing is all im saying. this is with my car the srt4 not a cb7 just to put that out of the way so that he doesnt get confused

[cornerkid322]

i was wondering MRX, and please don't thrash me, but how can higher octane fuel lower your HP? its cleaner, more potent for better combustion, and ive seen better Mpg's in my cb then with lower octane fuels. but if what you were talking about e85 vs. race fuel then i probably sound stupid. but whatever, just trying to learn more.

[NAiL05]

i was wondering MRX, and please don't thrash me, but how can higher octane fuel lower your HP? its cleaner, more potent for better combustion, and ive seen better Mpg's in my cb then with lower octane fuels. but if what you were talking about e85 vs. race fuel then i probably sound stupid. but whatever, just trying to learn more.

Lies. First of all you need to know what octane means. Another thing is what the ECU is tuned for a certain type of gas. Newer cars have the ability to sense a higher grade fuel and adjust the map to it. Older cars do not have this ability unless you chip some sort of ECU or run stand alone management.