F22 cylinder wall vs forged pistons

[HondaFan81]

As the subject line states, I have a F22a1 engine (92 Accord LX) that I want to do a all-motor high compression build-up on. However, in talking with some people, I was told that these F22 engine have a iron composite cylinder wall? Anyways, I called Race Engineering and talked to a guy, and he tells me it's specifically called "Nikasil"? So I did research on this Nikasil, and it is a cylinder coating that is nickel and silicone based. It provides durable wear characteristics and good cylinder wall lubrication. However, if I am to install forged pistons into Nikasil coated cylinders, they wil wear fast and the proper way is to resleeve your block with ductile iron sleeves, then go with forged aluminum alloy pistons.

Before I get carried away with resleeving the block (which defeats my budgeting goals), can you knowledgeable people here verify that 90-93 Honda Accords came with Nikasil coated cylinders? If not that, then what specific material/coating did they come with?

No one has given me a satisfying explanation on this matter and yet I have many people acting like you can go ahead and throw in forged pistons into any block setup. It's very frustrating.

[MRX]

Ok i've run across this same question. Forged pistons in the f22 block with stock cylinder walls. I've talked to the highest source i know of Bisi-moto. He has the fastest f22 and told me that putting forged pistons into the f22 with no resleeving (maybe a bit of honing or boring to get to the fresh part of the walls) is absolutely fine. It will hold up as if you had the stock pistons in the block. I'm not sure if this will help you at all but i trust Bisi and i'm willing to drop the $700 or so when the time comes. But i would still like to hear more about this subject.

[HondaFan81]

Yea but Bisi is building a drag race motor. He does not need his engine to last 120-150K.

So what is he basing his information on? That they will last well for a typical drag motor? Or will they last as long as a stock Honda setup?

Personally, I could give two shits who you are, unless you specify your answer to the question at hand and it actually makes sense. Not an "I think" or "it should", I want facts.

[HondaFan81]

If someone replies "it has iron sleeves", I want specifics and if it has some kind of coating on it:

- cast iron
- ductile iron
- nikasil coating on some type of iron


I've been hearing too much controversial info and it's driving me insane.

[MRX]

Originally posted by HondaFan81
Yea but Bisi is building a drag race motor. He does not need his engine to last 120-150K.

So what is he basing his information on? That they will last well for a typical drag motor? Or will they last as long as a stock Honda setup?

Personally, I could give two shits who you are, unless you specify your answer to the question at hand and it actually makes sense. Not an "I think" or "it should", I want facts.

You know that damn near no one has put forged pistons in this block and have even had the time to ride around for over 100K miles. If there was someone on this board like that you know you would have found them already. I do however know of a guy that has a slightly built f22 with high comp (10.0:1 i believe)je pistons and it was just honed not resleeved. Unfortunately the information isn't readily available but i'd try calling up Ross, Wiseco, or JE to find out for sure. In the end its still hear say because u will not be able to know how many miles the engine has run with the pistons nor is anyone going to open up their block to prove they have pistons. And yes when i talked to Bisi he was fully aware of my setup and the fact that this is a daily driver that needs to last over 100K miles more

No matter what your going to get an "i think" or "it should" there are no guarantees in this game and you already know this

Originally posted by HondaFan81

I've been hearing too much controversial info and it's driving me insane.

yes, i can tell lol

[HondaFan81]

Thanks for the info Midnight, I wasn't taking it out on you directly, just the information. Thanks for making it more clear to, that you spoke to him about a daily driver setup and trying to get a good amount of mileage out of it.

I too have verified the material of our stock F22 sleeves from two sources: Arias pistons (contact: Tom Jung) and RS Machine - sleeving shop (contact: Mark).

Both sources verified the stock F22 sleeves to be cast iron. I also did an extensive search on Honda-Tech forum and a majority of the people stated the same, however you always get a few people throwing in incorrect information because they heard it through the grapevine.

I'm just happy I don't have to rethink my plans.

[MRX]

i was also to understand that our sleeves were cast iron and that is why introducing forged pistons to them was not a problem. I am to also understand that the block is made of nickasil and that the 3rd gen accords have the entire cast iron block including the sleeves. Don't worry, i'm in the same boat you are about this...your not alone man lol

[Kabuki]

Originally posted by midnite racer x
i was also to understand that our sleeves were cast iron and that is why introducing forged pistons to them was not a problem. I am to also understand that the block is made of nickasil and that the 3rd gen accords have the entire cast iron block including the sleeves. Don't worry, i'm in the same boat you are about this...your not alone man lol

Yeah, those 3G engines are the shit for longevity... Our current record for one is 465,000 miles. I still have multiple customers over 300K... I'll bet you could bost the crap out of those cast iron blocks... Hmmm.. Another project car...

[WiKKeDV16]

THREAD JACK!!
PREPARE YOURSELF FOR LIFT OFF....

3G OWNAGE!!!

http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...n&pagenumber=2





















:owned:

[HondaFan81]

yea, 3G engine seems fairly stout, too bad that body is fugly, droppin it into a 4th gen ....now we talkin

don't cry Wikked....

[punkrockimport]

nor is anyone going to open up their block to prove they have pistons

haha, ive got pisatons, but they're stock j/k man

[WiKKeDV16]

Originally posted by HondaFan81
yea, 3G engine seems fairly stout, too bad that body is fugly, droppin it into a 4th gen ....now we talkin

don't cry Wikked....

why would i cry..?? i adore both cars.. actually its mutual.. lol

3g wih f22b dohc
4g with a20a3

[MRX]

I'm gonna keep doing some research on this myself because i am not afraid to drop about $700-$800 for rods, pistons, and the most important for me...piston rings. I have a question tho, do you have to take off the head to have the sleeves bored and honed out slightly for new pistons to fit? I wouldn't think so but i just wanted some insight. If the head does have to come off then i'll just buy another engine and build it

[WiKKeDV16]

ive never heard of anyone doing it with the head on so im assumng no.and i wouldnt.. why buy another motor??
i mean it wont take a shop long to do the honing and install

[MRX]

if i take the head off then its gonna cost another $250+ in parts to get it back on...plus the labor of taking the head and dropping the oil pan = mucho dinero. So i'd rather just start out with just a block, and do the install myself ya know