Nitrous vs Turbo pro/con advice needed

[toycar]

How is this "off topic"?

As for turbo vs nitrous... one does not hurt the other... when your turbo is nearly maxed out, throw some nitrous on her.

Or if your turbo isnt spooling like you want it to, a small 50-75 shot will increase EGT's and cylinder pressure enough to get the turbo screaming.


I run a small shot on my DSM, but its to help get the hx35 spinning before 4k, not because I believe it to be some amazing power adding fuel. Does it help, sure, fuck yeah NOS is great when properly setup.


TO me though, its the last mod on a turbo build or the last mod on a high compression N/A build. Its not the first step to a N/A build, or the secret to breaking into the 200whp club.

[PR CB7]

you already bought wiseco slugs, that will yield you at 9:1 comp, some good bisi rods, for $400, are worth it

after this, decide on whaterver cam, satisfies your need, and at that point you can chose which power adder satifies your needs

think about nitrous as the hot bitch that you want to be with, but have to keep refilling her needs

and turbo as the expensive hot bitch who you have to bust your balls to get, but once you get it she's all yours

[cb7_with_snail]

Actually, you can have a wet kit in and working perfectly for less that $500 bucks and less than two hours. The amount of tuning required for a 50hp shot is: NOTHING. 75 hp: one or two step colder spark plugs. 100 hp: Two step colder plugs and retard the timing a couple of degrees. The heater is only necessary at the track for pulling multiple runs frequently, for an occasional shot, you don't need it. That's pretty much it for tuning. No ECU modding, no dyno tuning, nothing. Most of the companies sell kits with WOT switches, making them damn near idiot proof.
Yes, it does cost to fill the bottle, about $3-5 a pound depending on where you go. How much use you get out of each pound depnds on the size of your shot, and how often you spray it.

How much does it cost to get a snail set up to run 50 extra hp? How much tuning time do you need to run a turbo? When you're off the bottle, you're driving a normal N/A car. What happens when your turbo quits?


Apparently the way nitrous works is a mystery to some people. It's not a constant use thing like turbo or SC. It's not a matter of going from 200hp to 106 when the bottle is empty, it's a matter of ALWAYS being at 106, but having an additional 50-75-100 at WOT. (numbers are for explanation only)
I recommend building your motor N/A, having it dynoed, and then running half the hp for your nitrous shot. There's some really good information in the nitrous section here, and google can be a big help as well.

x2


nitrous ftw. ive spent a total of $1,340 for my nitrous kit. how ever it includes every thing for a fully built nitrous drag accord.

for 150-500 u can grab a small kit of ebay or craigslist and add 15-100 hp in an instant.

[SOHC-FTW]

NITROUS is just as safe as any other power adder out there.Which in the end everything breaks regardless no matter who built it or how much time an money is invested in it.Now a days 11s is even slow for N/A hondas.IMO its your car weither boosted,N/A, or bottle feed you will have fun with a quick DD an shit will eventually break.Nitrous is fun an if your new to it alls you'll wanna do is spray, and at $20+ a pop to refill it gets pricey, but so does N/A or boost.I know a kid that refilled his zex kit 9times in 4 days he was having a little to much fun.I do like the idea of tucking it in the bay an having no ordinary person notice it, and the fact that you don't have to drive around with it all day you will retaing streetable use.As for people slaping nitrous kits on an not getting a tune well thats just asking for it(Most just retard the timing an get colder plugs).Id rather it be as safe as possible when i need it an when i don't plus more power is to be had from a tune weither nitrous,N/A,or boosted.

[visualpoet]

Would everyone please stop referring to nitrous as NOS? That's some ricer shit started by the FnF movies. NOS is the brand manufactured by Holley. Nitrous oxide or n2o is the gas mixture being discussed. Before FnF, nobody referred to nitrous as NOS.

rebuttals in blue:

Go turbo or go home.


Thats how I feel anyways. NOS on a 4 cylinder engine is a waste of time without other stuff going for the motor already.

How is an instant 50 -75 hp a waste of time on a four cylinder? That's perfectly safe on a healthy engine without doing anything except adding the kit and possibly changing the plugs.

IMHO, just my opinion but thats alot of stress on the motor, for an occasional bump in the power. Plus, the forever cost of refilling the bottle and the idea that N20 explodes when misshandled means NOS is not ideal for me.

Nitrous is known as the safest way to boost power in the automotive industry when used properly. It doesn't explode when mishandled, that's movie bullshit. It's not even flammable until it's over 500 odd degrees, causing the nitrogen and oxygen molecules to seperate, allowing the oxygen to burn, while the nitrogen is there to help stabilize the extra oxygen. Nitrous explosions are caused by idiots heating the bottle with a torch or keeping the button pressed when not at WOT. Turbo can be just as expensive, if not more so in the long run because it's ALWAYS running, meaning more wear and tear on the engine and the opportunity to suck in shrapnel if your impellers break up. Nitrous only gets used when you want it.

Then theres the whole "tune" aspect. Just because your NOS has a WOT switch, doesnt mean the air fuel mixture is ideal. It just means your STOCK ecu is throwing AS MUCH FUEL in there as it can, while your spraying. Its not like the stock ecu acheives stoich, so adding a secondary fuel supply is really just silly without a tune to go with it.

The added fuel mixture on a wet kit is calculated by the manufacturer to be the proper amount to go with the amount of n2o you're spraying. You can bet your ass that the manufacturers are making it as perfect as possible for people to use their products. The WOT switch has nothing to do with the ECU at all. Nitrous is pretty much a stand alone power adder until you start using it for big shots of 100+, then you start to look at different cams and fuel pumps.

That scenario(wot) usually helps with detonation, that and under WOT the ECU adjusts ignition timing for you. You are basically piggy backing on the stock tune by not allowing any spray at any other time then at WOT.


The WOT switch isn't there to achieve optimal mix, it's there because you only want to spray at WOT and EVERY manufacturer will tell you that you only spray at WOT. You can leave the ECU out of it completely. They've been spraying cars with nitrous since before you were born and before cars had computers.

I run a small 75 shot on my DSM to get the turbo spooling faster, and thats about it. NOS is tough on a cylinder, rings and anything really in the block. Just because a car CAN handle a small shot, doesnt mean that it WILL for long.

Are you spraying into the exhaust before the turbo to spool up quicker, or the intake to bring the RPMs up quicker? If you're spraying into the intake, then you're getting a 75 hp boost from the nitrous. The quicker spool up on the snail is a by-product of the engine having more power before the exhaust gases even reach the turbo. If you're spraying into the exhaust to spool the turbo, you could switch to co2 and have the same results less expensively.
Nitrous is no tougher on the engine components than a snail or a super charger. It's actually easier, turbo and superchargers heat the incoming air charge, while nitrous cools it significantly.

NOS alone=Weak sauce, catastrophe waiting to happen- in my opinion.

NOS+high compression+nice cam+individual throttle body+tune=sex on wheels.
So, if your not going to the tops with an N/A build, Turbo is where its at.


Id much rather tear the tires loose at 60mph, downshifting into 3rd at about 4500rpm's and listen to my airplane sounding whistle as my turbo is screaming.... That noise, turns heads.


My car hardly ever see's WOT during daily driving, let alone redline. BUT, my car BOV's everytime I shift, and my intercooler is sexy 24 hours a day. At 3k RPM stuff starts happeneing even under casual driving- where Im getting into nice power and loving it while maintaining 22-24 MPG's.

I'd like to repeat: Turbo... ...ALWAYS running. Nitrous only gets used when you want it.


For me, it isnt even a debate.


The real question is whether or not you will spray after you go turbo.

Your entire post seems based on your opinion and very little actual fact. Not trying to start an argument, just making sure that FACTS are being passed along, not opinions.

OP - These links should answer some questions about the juice:
http://www.nitrous.info/
http://www.nitrousdirect.com/nitrousoxide.html

[h22sparkle]

Also be aware that if you show up or get caught at the street races you can and will be thrown in jail and yoru car confiscated along with the nitrous bottle. Be sure to make sure what yoour local laws have to say about transporting goods without placards on it. Thats the bullshit they are on up here in the city.

[toycar]

Would everyone please stop referring to nitrous as NOS? That's some ricer shit started by the FnF movies. NOS is the brand manufactured by Holley. Nitrous oxide or n2o is the gas mixture being discussed. Before FnF, nobody referred to nitrous as NOS.

rebuttals in blue:


Your entire post seems based on your opinion and very little actual fact. Not trying to start an argument, just making sure that FACTS are being passed along, not opinions.

OP - These links should answer some questions about the juice:
http://www.nitrous.info/
http://www.nitrousdirect.com/nitrousoxide.html

I used the term "nos" as an identifiable term to the general readers. I will refer to as n2o, as I agree that is ricer. And I know that cars dont just explode from n2o. But cars do get into accidents, that cause fires. Often times, these accidents were people being jackasses and racing in traffic. You know, being a ricer.

Plus, switches fail, bottle heaters fail, shit happens. Everything we do to our car is just going to fail eventually. Everything.
Its a combustion engine, you cannot control tiny explosions indefinetley, its just not possible.


Anyways, my opinion is based upon experience. Ive seen plenty of n2o setups ruine lots of piston rings, and damage to cylinders has also been a common complaint. I myself, have only run n2o on two of my cars. All went well, but it wasnt the first thing I jumped into.

On the other hand, most of the people I knew running an intake, header and an exhaust that thought n2o would be great, blew their shit up(not literally, destroyed their engine i.e. rings, hot spots on pistons, snapped rods, warped cylinder etc.)

So, from my experience I suggest against n2o unless you really know what your doing and things are set up to handle it.


I think we can agree on at least one thing, that if its not set up correctly it can and will cause problems.


I agree that the rest of what I was saying maybe more opinion(from experience) rather then fact-I suppose.

I still do not agree that a stock motor is safe for running n2o on, but that to me is a difference of opinion you and I just happen to have. Im a turbo guy.
An old turbo guy. Im sure theres been plenty of people to go both ways(success and failure) with it that the point is moot at best-To me anyways.

As far as your comment about my n2o use;


I spray into the intake, I enjoy the extra ummphh but the only reason I added it was to get the turbo moving sooner. Thats it. The idea its even being ran under my hood makes me more nervous about my precious....

I've actually been reading about the co2, but that pretty new to me.

[JustSomeGuy]

Wow. My eyes hurt from all the reading. Lol. As far as gettin my rods. Yeah, i talked to julio via email yesterday and ill be ordering a biso set in the next 2 weeks or so. After reading the opinions,comments, and facts and doing a little more research im strongly leaning towards turbo. I appreciate all the info and input guys. Thanks for the knowledge.

[Joey GT-R]

While I think there are definite points on both sides, in regards to his setup, he needs turbo. While 9.0:1 is a slight and I mean SLIGHT bump in compression for the F22A, it's not going to serve him well for an N/A build. He'd be lucky if he broke into the 150whp club at that point unless he does some other big modifications. If you're going to spray...and this IMHO....you should be at 10.0:1 or greater for best results. If you want trade those pistons for some High Comp ones or some stock F20B, K20/K24 if you do decide to go Nitrous.



700 POSTS!!!!

[Straight Success]

Just to add a little on points that have been touched on.

Nitrous "LOVES" high compression; very high compression.

Turbo "NEEDS" lower compression; downwards in the range of ~8.5-9.5:1 depending on amount of boost.

Nitrous is good for those who want something a little extra at a moments instant. How often do you race? If it's a DD, I'm sure your not going to be on the bottle a lot. Maybe once or twice a week or so if using nitrous responsibly and sparingly, and not for just a quick nitrous fix every 5 minutes. It's always good for a sleeper.

Now turbo, it's always on demand, adds weight, but you always have the power you want once your propellers are spooling. It's hard to hide it, very hard! However, if it's not a DD and you plan on staying above 3K-4K RPM, then turbo is for you as it will always give you the kick in the @ss that you need.

Finally with the right sized turbo, you can make much more power on our cars with a turbo than you can with juice. I figure a good turbo set up for the street, you'll see 300-350 WHP. That's very impressive seeing our cars came with 125-140 HP on average. Now, if you build a reliable NA motor with about 225 WHP, you can spray a 75 or even 100 shot (which is a nice size shot for our motors IMO), and enjoy ~300whp or so at the press of a button or @ WOT. Will the nitrous cause problems? Probably not unless you're spraying all the time (everyday).

So, in conclusion, you can opt out for higher RPMs and enjoy 300 or so WHP with a turbo, or, alternatively, you can cruise around at low RPMs with high compression pushing low 200 HP numbers, and have an additional 75-100 HP on demand if need.

Either way, have fun and be safe.

[Grumpys93]

all i can say is i raced someone on here who had a 100 shot on a f22a6 when i was running a evo 3 big 16g, pushing 8lbs on a f22a1 i walked him easily. If he cares to vouche for that race. That race alone made me a believer that turbo is better then nitrous. And that person i raced is now going turbo.

[Straight Success]

all i can say is i raced someone on here who had a 100 shot on a f22a6 when i was running a evo 3 big 16g, pushing 8lbs on a f22a1 i walked him easily. If he cares to vouche for that race. That race alone made me a believer that turbo is better then nitrous. And that person i raced is now going turbo.

Nice. More details are needed about set-ups and race. Congrats though.

Oh, and how did you blow your first motor?

[NWaccord]

IMO with your f22 at 9:1 compression, I would go turbo. That way forsure you'll be passed the 200hp+ with just the turbo kit/tunning. Nitrous would benifit better with some headwork/cam/higher comp.
And being under load, in boost, isnt any safer than running nitrous......TRUST ME
Ive used up about 12-10lbs bottles with no regards to the 8200 rev limiter/ a few miss shifts to my stock block... Compression is still at 235+ accross all cylinders
As for racing (IMO) same amount of hp nitrous vs hp turbo....nitrous would win. Personal experience/no brainer

[Grumpys93]

Nice. More details are needed about set-ups and race. Congrats though.

Oh, and how did you blow your first motor?

Race was from a 40 roll. I wish i still had the video but my ex had it then she deleted all our stuff when we broke up.
my set-up was
DSM 2g manifold ported,
1g dsm bov uncrushed
evo 3 big 16g internal wasteage
f22a1 stock
450cc injectors(blue top)
1987 supra FMIC
2 1/4 hot side 2 1/2 cold side
act heavy duty clutch forgot the num/letters
chipped po6 street tuned on chrome
ESP traction bars
bf goodrich g sport force tires
atomsperic dump with screamer pipe into a 2 1/2 mendrel bent into a glasspack resonator into a megan racing muffler.

His set-up from what i remember:
f22a6 stock
AEM c/a/i with bypass
unknown header
apexi w2 exhaust
auto tran(maybe thats why)
not sure what nitrous kit but it had a WOT switch and was told 100 shot dry

Both were coupes both with 1 passenger one. his was 92 mine was a 93.

What blew my first engine was ringlands went. Lost compression

Enough details?

[JustSomeGuy]

Decision was made to stick woth original idea of turbo. I actually ordered my bisimoto rods a lil while ago tonight. Parts acquirement is well underway. Yay!